Why scrap SRX?

AK-Jake:

Wow, I must be really impractical: I own 4 HUGE 88 key workstations, and I gig with 2-3 of them at the same time . . . I just picked up a mint-condition, barely-used Fantom X7 with maxed RAM, Audio Track Expansion, newest OS, and an SRX board installed for $1000 . . . My thought is that if you need/desperately want your SRX boards, why not just keep your Fantom X?

Four, 88-key boards?!?! Wow! That's not impractical . . . for you! You're probably one helluva keyboard player! But, in addition to my four keyboards (G8, V-Synth GT, VirusTI Polar, Radias), I've also got a V-Drum kit, four guitar amps, four, 4x12 Marshall cabinets, a 2x12 Marshall cab, an electric cello, plus a bunch of rack gear, all in one small studio/office! I'm just plain outta room!

As for my Fantom-X8, it's long gone. I would've loved to have just kept my X8, had I the space. But, I got a pretty decent trade-in on it toward my new G8, making the upgrade pretty darn affordable. I needed to downsize my Fantom-X8 anyway, to an XR or Sonic Cell, although, as you've done, I may decide to pick up a used Fantom-X6 instead, someday.

dansgold:

Well, I can't stomach the idea of 'upgrading' to a FanG unless I can replace my FanX and get ALL of the sounds I now use.

Exactly my point, and you shouldn't, for just that reason. Proof, that Roland just lost another G sale.

If at all possible . . . the following would be undeniably cool: ARX-10: "Sonic Dreams" . . . contains the entire FantomX factory waveset + ALL of the SRX cards. Adds polyphony + effects . . . $499.

Again, my thoughts exactly! There are a myriad of ways that Roland could address this issue, STILL make money, AND capture otherwise, lost sales.

Quinnx:

And remember . . . It's all about making music—Not about keeping up with technology . . .

I couldn't agree more, Quinnx. However, in my view, the sample file management (or rather, lack thereof) in the X was so prohibitive to my writing, I found it to be a huge obstacle to the creative process. Again, this was the single feature that sold me on the G. Now, skipback sampling still "hears" everything (unlike on the X), even after the 1.10 update. (Sigh). Sorry, starting to go on another off-topic rant. I'll stop now . . .

JunoJohn:

If anyone is interested . . . the new Juno-Stage will hold two SRX cards.

Now, that DOES look interesting! Too bad it's only a 76-key version (I still need something smaller). Very cool, nonetheless. Especially for those with Sonic Cell or Fantom-XR modules to control. Thanks for the head's up! That gives me an idea. An idea to ask yet another question, at least . . . Perhaps, some nice, smart person here could make a list of all the Roland products, past and present, that are able to host SRX boards?

http://www.roland.co.uk/intdemo/srx/index.html
click the link under the Fantom X8 )

Andy
http://www.myspace.com/firegardensheffield
http://www.myspace.com/andykeys74

Andy Keys:

Hey, thanks! Duh! I was just looking at that site, as a matter of fact. I never noticed the "secret" link below the Fantom-X image! Thanks again!

To anyone here that knows the answer:

Will SRX boards sound radically different in an older XV-series module (e.g., as in not-as-good), than say, if housed in a more-current, Fantom-X or Fantom-XR? The SRX board holds only the waveforms, right? And the host synthesizer or module is responsible for its "complete" sound, right? So, any given SRX boards' sound quality would be largely (if not, entirely) dependent on the quality of the host synth or module, correct?

Correct rezfactor,

The host unit would determine how the waveforms (and therefore patches) would ultimately sound.

And there's polyphony to consider as well. Some of the older units are quite low on that, so it's worth bearing in mind.

Andy
http://www.myspace.com/firegardensheffield
http://www.myspace.com/andykeys74

The next ARX-03 board should be a FX with all (missed) FX sounds and all SRX sounds on it.
Then the ARX-04 board should contain The complete V-Synth-GT with the vocal designer and AP-synthesis.

Would'nt that be nice? LOL


FX, VS-XT, VS-GT & SH-7(!)
Soon FG

Regarding a few comments made:

Putting the entire FanX and SRX library in the FanG would not necessarily 'kill' SRX sales. People still have (and like) their FantomX, SonicCell, JunoG, etc. ... soon to be joined by Juno Stage owners. So, there is still a market for SRX cards, and Rolands inclusion of the SRX tech in new products indicates that they consider this a viable technology solution.

Considering (also) the fact that the dev costs for these libraries has already been recouped, and patches already created, the only real cost of including them on the FanG would be the addtional onboard ROM ... cheap. This would also help to justify the hefty pricetag for the FanG series, which is significantly higher than the Korg M3 or Yamaha Motif XS. Right now they are charging MORE money for a board with LESS wave ROM than the competition ... not a powerful sales argument, IMHO. Consider what a powerful sales case could be made by being able to say "EVERYTHING you loved about your FantomX ... and so much more!" The point is that you want to make things as easy to buy as possible. The inclusion of the complete SRX library plus patch compatibility with the FanX ... SALE!

Nothing about this requires Roland to leave out any new features or addtional new ROM elements.

dansgold
just a small info that may mess with your thought:
In Europe, as far as I know, the Fantom G solds cheaper then both the M3 and the Motif. The difference can go up to to 450€ (something around 600$US ) in the 88 versions. I don't know if this is due to any policy in Europe pricing but it sure makes a hell of a great argument for Roland sales person.

Sorry guys, but it's really dumb to expect any keyboard manufacturer to automatically include ALL the patches of the previous version.

• Others will constantly complain that they're just rehashing the same old presets if any patches are recycled.

• The Fantom-G would have millions of sounds, because it'd have to have all the sounds of the X, which would have all the sounds of the S, which would have all the sounds of the FA-76, which would have all the sounds of the XP-80, which would have all the sounds of the JV-1000, which would have all the sounds of the JW-50, which would have...

• For full compatibility (bank and PC messages), any new sounds would have to be appended to the end of the patch list, which means anyone turning on the Fantom-G would have to get through all the old, outdated patches just to get to the new stuff. No one would buy the thing because it'd sound like circa '88.


Technology marches on—deal with it. If someone's so married to SRX, they should stick with their X. Or keep both. This isn't rocket science.

I have a storeroom full of keyboards and modules just to recreate the sounds of old songs for clients. Nothing new there.

Audacity:

I'm just saying that the surprising dearth of SRX sounds in Roland's newest flagship isn't the best example of a customer-oriented product development strategy. It's a brand management philosophy that may in fact be causing them lost sales. I've had a storeroom of abandoned technology as well. But much of it I had to throw away because either the formats were no longer supported, or parts were no longer available. I will "deal with it" because I have no other choice. I don't have to be happy about it.

Audacity, you are missing the point I made completely or you just don't want to address it. A lot of sounds on SRX are plain better than internal ones on FG, end of. It's not about having SRX sounds inside the FG as presets, but at least match the friggin quality of SRX. They might as well sell an almost empty board & you as individual user choose what sounds to have in it by buying banks via Roland, even that would make more sense.

Audacity:

Roland SAID "The Best of the Best of ALL the SRX will be included"

That was the expectation that was FAR from met.
They advertised this at NAMM very clearly and forcefully.

Not even all the SRX boards are represented let alone the best.

Very dissappointing and false advertising.
I am keeping my G because I get good use of the Live Mode and I like the Piano and EP's, which I use most of the time.

I'm not referencing anybody in particular, and it'd be great to have a lot more SRX sounds included, but sound ROM is one of the most expensive pieces of hardware within a keyboard. There's no way they'd be able to include a single person's favorite SRX patches, because everyone has different favorite SRX patches. Roland had to make a decision on what to include, and they have to know they'd be upsetting a few people.

Sure, SRX-11 has better pianos.
SRX-01 has better drums.
SRX-10 has better brass.
SRX-xx has better xxxxx.

Roland chose what they thought were the best sounds from all the boards, and not a single person in the world will agree 100% with their decisions. No one will have all their favorite SRX patches included. I mean, how could they?

The only possible way to appease everyone would be to include everything and have 1,024MB of sound ROM. And charge $2000 more.
And have everyone complain about the price.
So then no one's happy. Vicious circle.

Also keep in mind that SRX boards don't apply any longer because they'd have to work within the confines of the G's architecture. Banks don't exist any longer; all patches are in a huge patch bin, just like phrases, samples, etc. I'm sure there's a huge host of reasons why SRX boards aren't compatible—the heat issue is most likely the biggest deal.

Whether or not some of you want ARX-01 or 02, I'm really excited about what else is on the horizon. VA, tonewheel modeling with sliders as drawbars, FM...? All as extra parts and extra polyphony. Personally, I find that waaaay cooler than SRX.

And of course, who's to say Roland won't release a high-end, 128-voice, 16 part orchestral ARX board?

But my point is basically that one can't assume a new keyboard will automatically replace everything about the previous version. It can't, otherwise every new board would be a bloated mess.

This week, Apple announced Snow Leopard, which, if the rumors are true, will completely dump power-PC support. My dual 2GHz G5 can't be updated any longer. A bunch of people are thrilled with this news because it means Apple can focus on new technology instead of spending all their time maintaining backward compatibility.

That's not to say I don't empathize with you guys. I'd love four SRX slots as well. But it ain't happening.

Roland SAID "The Best of the Best of ALL the SRX will be included"

That was the expectation that was FAR from met.

Well, their statement was certainly very subjective, as "best" means absolutely nothing—at least in an empirical sense. No one agrees on what's best. One would think that'd be more obvious to everyone from the start:

Hmm...

1. All the SRX boards collectively make up 768MB of waveforms.
2. The Fantom-G has 256MB of ROM, including new waveforms.
3. Chances are, not all of my favorite SRX sounds will be there.

It was really ironic to watch Jem Godfrey demonstrate new sounds, "there are THOUSANDS of sounds" & he demoed....4

A piano
Overdrive guitar
Lead
Choir

That must be part of Japanese humour

ROM is one of the most expensive pieces of hardware within a keyboard

Flash ROM is just a few $/GB. Real ROM is cheaper than that if produced in large enough quantities.

I'm sure there's a huge host of reasons why SRX boards aren't compatible—the heat issue is most likely the biggest deal.

Being an electornics engineer, I doubt that.

By excluding SRX compatibility Roland have closed a huge door in the G. For now ARX seems to be only a very small window to expand the soundset.

I don't care much for the actual physical SRX format but it sure would be nice if we could use the content of those cards somehow.