The Fantom G and people moaning about it

johnc wrote:

i understand fully diametro. its my business. roland brought an of the shelf product that is produced in tens of millions so it costs next nothing to buy. the screen in the g would cost less than the one in the x due to the massive volumes produced and technological advances. the software to drive it is written by roland, so you can count the man hours in that, about the same cost as the x screen programming. the kronos has atom cpu which costs about £8.00 and its touch screen, about £3.60. so to conclude, all the parts cost next to nothing in all the keyboards. what you are paying for is the programming and product development and the limited sales volume. not the internal parts. if your happy with the keyboard you have, good for you. personally i have never wanted my laptop to have a 3 inch super low resolution screen rather than the large ugly crystal clear screen it has. same with my keyboards. but each to there own.

I guess until we have some kind of third-party pro analysis, we will agree to disagree on this topic ...

Yes, I'll agree though that Roland wasted a lot of development dollars redesigning something that didn't need it ... Producing a brand-new product that didn't need to be brand-new ... only better ...

BTW ... I'm guessing you didn't have any SRX cards in your Fantom X since you didn't mention it ... Understandable you prefered the G ... It's the most important thing with Fan-X ... otherwise, it's a X is a somewhat meh experience ... Unfortunately, that meh is only slightly alleviated with the G because of the overall bland soundset without broad sound expansion capability (Not counting ARX ... too specific ... adding drums and/or brass and ep is not my idea of a beefed-up soundset ... )

Prices vary in Europe but I have looked at a price comparing site and there I see that the Fantom G8 costs between 3399 and 3477 Euros, while the Kronos 88 goes for 3699 Euros!
So, with your words, if Roland thinks that they can charge for one plug in 3477 Euros, then I think that Korg certainly can charge 200 Euros more for nine plugins.

Yes, you are right, store price was way to high!

My expectations too :-)

And yes, the demo guy should have read the f... Manual!
I really liked the Korg demo online from namm.

Mnoizz

Diametro wrote:

johnc wrote:

i understand fully diametro. its my business. roland brought an of the shelf product that is produced in tens of millions so it costs next nothing to buy. the screen in the g would cost less than the one in the x due to the massive volumes produced and technological advances. the software to drive it is written by roland, so you can count the man hours in that, about the same cost as the x screen programming. the kronos has atom cpu which costs about £8.00 and its touch screen, about £3.60. so to conclude, all the parts cost next to nothing in all the keyboards. what you are paying for is the programming and product development and the limited sales volume. not the internal parts. if your happy with the keyboard you have, good for you. personally i have never wanted my laptop to have a 3 inch super low resolution screen rather than the large ugly crystal clear screen it has. same with my keyboards. but each to there own.

I guess until we have some kind of third-party pro analysis, we will agree to disagree on this topic ...

Yes, I'll agree though that Roland wasted a lot of development dollars redesigning something that didn't need it ... Producing a brand-new product that didn't need to be brand-new ... only better ...

BTW ... I'm guessing you didn't have any SRX cards in your Fantom X since you didn't mention it ... Understandable you prefered the G ... It's the most important thing with Fan-X ... otherwise, it's a X is a somewhat meh experience ... Unfortunately, that meh is only slightly alleviated with the G because of the overall bland soundset without broad sound expansion capability (Not counting ARX ... too specific ... adding drums and/or brass and ep is not my idea of a beefed-up soundset ... )

so what do you call a "beefed-up soundset"?

Have you all thought about the fact that maybe Roland thought that the Brass, Drums, and Eps were the only instruments that needed ARX help? So you all would have been fine, if they would have repackaged the SRX technology as ARX...? (like so many of you before have said they have been doing for YEARS... repackaging/recycling OLD technology... LOL...

apex wrote:

Have you all thought about the fact that maybe Roland thought that the Brass, Drums, and Eps were the only instruments that needed ARX help?

Sorry apex, but this doesn't make any sense at all. Roland certainly didn't think about instruments that need "arx help". If you apply that argument to the srx line, then it would appear that any sound on the former workstations and keyboards need help because the sound variety of the srx line is huge.

apex wrote:

So you all would have been fine, if they would have repackaged the SRX technology as ARX...? (like so many of you before have said they have been doing for YEARS... repackaging/recycling OLD technology... LOL...

No. Nobody asked that srx would be repackaged and sold separately as arx. You have misunderstood what Diametro said.
The point is simple that a Fantom X can sound better and has a bigger sound variety of high quality sounds when expanded with srx cards, than the latest Fantom G which doesn't have the possibility to take srx card, and the arx cards don't really expand the sound variety. You get some better sounds, but only for some brass sounds, e. pianos and drums.

This is my opinion:
It appears that Fantom G is probably the last in the fantom series, based on pure classical sample synthesis approach. I would also say that the srx cards are coming to an end because newer keyboards from Roland don't even have the possibility to take the srx cards: the rd700nx doesn't have the possibility for example. What is left? The Sonic Cell which accepts one single srx card and the Juno Stage.
So, Roland could have done what some other companies do when a certain technology comes near to its end. They could have put really most of those great sounds into the Fantom G. The Fantom G would 3 years ago (and even now) sound really TERRIFIC in any area. All it would need would be a slightly bigger Wave Rom. More than the actual 256 Mb that the FG has.
Korg is doing this: the Triton Extreme was based as the last Triton on all sounds from their older expansions. Kurzweil puts their former expansions all together in the pc3. Korg even put all their sound expansions from the Oasys "for free" into the Kronos.
Roland simply could have done something similar.
Imagine how the Fantom G would sound with having the complete piano srx 11 built in, with srx 12 e. pianos, with srx1 dynamic drum kits, with srx 10 big brass ensemble, with the best of the studio card, the complete orchestra including the lush choirs, with selected the best from the world instruments card and finally with a best of selection from those analog/synthtype sounds.
4 complete cards and a real best of could be put into a wave rom with the size about 350-400 Mb. That would be still in line with the wave rom of the Motif XS at that time (three years ago).
Roland has all those samples and patches. They could simply have use those sounds and didn't really have to spend any time in sound developing except for some adjusting on the effect side. They could have used the time on working in other areas of the FG's os instead of spending the time on sampling new instrument variations which they already have.
It doesn't make any sense that the Fantom X has a piano where every single note is sampled, while the samples for the piano on the newer model, the FG, are stretched and don't sound as detailed as on a former model. No company does this, putting an inferior piano into a newer model!
Put simply, a Fantom G really based on the srx sounds/samples would still be highly competitive these days against a motif xf or the kronos sound wise.

how do you know that they didn't do that? (as far as what you say about the srx sounds/waves in the Fantom G? what I was saying is that maybe they used the "best" wave samples they had and then they felt that the "only" categories that still needed help was the Drums, EPs, & Brass... hence the 3 ARX cards they released...

I think some people have spent tons of time waiting, complaining, whining...etc... instead of just looking at the Fantom G for what it is. Not what it could become.

maybe people should spend more time criticizing themselves as to what they "could" have become or the music they "could" have made if they'd not spent so much time wasting on what the G "could" have been or "could" have done...

i'll tell you something completely retarded that I noticed about the kronos and the jp80 before they even came out and people really got a chance to see what they sounded like. Immediately after spec release on the Kronos people were asking "what expansion possibilities are there"... right after spec release for the jp80... people were asking "why did roland put out a keyboard with out expansion possibilities"

folks act like they just WANT/NEED to spend money. I mean dang, use the instrument then expand it. what sense does it make to go and buy a new keyboard and buy expansion cards all in one purchase when you don't even know if you "need" the card. if they'd offered a piano arx expansion people would have purchased it JUST BECAUSE IT WAS AVAILABLE... on the same receipt as their brand new fantom G.... having no idea if they even need it our not.

does that make sense? Maybe I'm just blind or deaf... but the sounds on the Fantom G (pianos. or anything else that we WANT expanded) are not that bad. there are somethings that could be improved on, but not exactly things that we have to use expansion cards for....

The reason I purchased the arx drum card is because of the ability to have my drums on their OWN mixer part... not because the drum sounds were lacking.... I purchased the arx ep card just a month or so ago (i've had my fantom g for over a year now)... but i bought the ep card just because I wanted to try it out and I got it brand new in box for $58 w/ free shipping. I considered the brass card, but as you know I only had two spots. the acoustic brass on the g are fine to me... so I did what I felt was best.

I'm just kinda tired of all the complaining.... if you don't like it just sell it. there are TONS of people out there making great music with far less and would love a Fantom G to improve on what they already have. Then you can buy what you need.

I know I don't have to read the complaints...but it seems like they just come with the territory. I like the roland clan forum and i like reading what guys post... but the complaints ABOUT THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AND OVER... just go ON AND ON AND ON.

let's make music with the instruments that Roland has given us. Not make war with Roland for not giving us what we thought they should have!!!!

let's make music with the instruments that Roland has given us. Not make war with Roland for not giving us what we thought they should have!!!!

Too true...
I enjoy the FG alot..
Possibilities are just endless
If we face facts that the G is now end of life as far as roland is concerned
we then have to move forward beyond this and concentrate on unitizing the Gs full potential..
What we have is all we are going to get.
From my perspective there is no reason to think any less of the G just because roland has stopped development or because the next greatest new synth worktation has been released..
I think the mistake people make is chasing the wind..
buy something now..
when something newer comes sell sell sell and get as much back as you can and get the latest and greatest
and then do it all over again and again..
The G is a 10-20 year investment not some fashion item
it does not suddenly become obsolete just because someone releases a newer better synth workstation

Music is music
your either good at it or your not.

apex wrote:

how do you know that they didn't do that? (as far as what you say about the srx sounds/waves in the Fantom G? what I was saying is that maybe they used the "best" wave samples they had and then they felt that the "only" categories that still needed help was the Drums, EPs, & Brass... hence the 3 ARX cards they released...

I don't know what Roland tried to cover with the ARX cards, and let's be honest, neither do you. I gave some arguments why your explanation doesn't seem very logical to me.

apex wrote:

maybe people should spend more time criticizing themselves as to what they "could" have become or the music they "could" have made if they'd not spent so much time wasting on what the G "could" have been or "could" have done...

Seriously, does that part of your post makes any sense? Maybe you have some complaints about the car you bought? Well, instead of complaining, just walk and improve your walking skills instead of complaining about the car...
I remember your posts where you were discussing for weeks about whether you should buy/sell/exchange this or that instrument. How much time you have wasted with buying decision posts instead of focusing on what you already had at that time.

apex wrote:

i'll tell you something completely retarded that I noticed about the kronos and the jp80 before they even came out and people really got a chance to see what they sounded like. Immediately after spec release on the Kronos people were asking "what expansion possibilities are there"... right after spec release for the jp80... people were asking "why did roland put out a keyboard with out expansion possibilities"

Yes, I agree with you completely on that one. But you should also know that Roland pushes very very hard on that expansion game. That is their marketing decision for years and decades. Just count the number of sr-jv and srx expansions. It's by far the biggest sample/sound library compared to the competition. And often it appears that Roland don't put the best sounds into the factory rom of the keyboards, instead, they put them on the expansion boards to gain more money.
So, I don't wonder why some people expect expansions before they even realize how the keyboard itself sounds.
But, just to make clear, in my previous post I was talking about the factory provided wave rom of the fantom g, and not what should be on expansion boards.

apex wrote:

does that make sense? Maybe I'm just blind or deaf... but the sounds on the Fantom G (pianos. or anything else that we WANT expanded) are not that bad. there are somethings that could be improved on, but not exactly things that we have to use expansion cards for....

The reason I purchased the arx drum card is because of the ability to have my drums on their OWN mixer part... not because the drum sounds were lacking.... I purchased the arx ep card just a month or so ago (i've had my fantom g for over a year now)... but i bought the ep card just because I wanted to try it out and I got it brand new in box for $58 w/ free shipping. I considered the brass card, but as you know I only had two spots. the acoustic brass on the g are fine to me... so I did what I felt was best.

Ok, let's see your equipment. I'm copying it from your equipment list from the Korg forum:

Triton Extr-88
M3-M(Radias,EXB-M256)
Roland Fantom G7(ARX-01, ARX-02,1 GB Ram)
Yamaha Motif Rack XS
Roland XV-5080 Xpanded SRX SRJV
Fantom XR

Now, please explain to me, you have 6 devices and yet you had the need to expand the M3, the XV and even the Fantom G with 2 arx cards??????
You bought the drum ARX because you wanted drums on their own mixer part? Don't you know that you have 128 midi channels on the FG? You could simply connect any of those devices you have to the FG and have the drums on its own mixer part. You bought the e. piano card just to try it out? Don't you have more than enough and good e. pianos from your existing 6 instruments?

apex wrote:

I know I don't have to read the complaints...but it seems like they just come with the territory. I like the roland clan forum and i like reading what guys post... but the complaints ABOUT THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AND OVER... just go ON AND ON AND ON.

let's make music with the instruments that Roland has given us. Not make war with Roland for not giving us what we thought they should have!!!!

Nobody makes war. People discuss. You don't need to read. And you don't need to post. It doesn't make any sense when you complain about how other people want expansion cards, and yet you buy them like crazy because among 4 hardware modules and dozens of software instruments, besides Logic Pro or Ableton, you don't realize that you don't need a drum arx card to have drums on a separate channel. It doesn't seem to me that you really know how to use all the equipment you have. From that perspective I absolutely don't see how your complains about other peoples complains could be justified or understandable.

IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any complain that comes from a person who uses the instrument and masters it inside out. Those people know what they are talking about. On the contrary, jumping into a discussion and making some general statements about how people should "make music" instead of complaining or simply sell it, just doesn't make any sense.

All my responses are in bold black text.

mojkarma wrote:

apex wrote:

how do you know that they didn't do that? (as far as what you say about the srx sounds/waves in the Fantom G? what I was saying is that maybe they used the "best" wave samples they had and then they felt that the "only" categories that still needed help was the Drums, EPs, & Brass... hence the 3 ARX cards they released...

I don't know what Roland tried to cover with the ARX cards, and let's be honest, neither do you. I gave some arguments why your explanation doesn't seem very logical to me.

I never said I knew what Roland was trying to cover... it was just something to think about. And to me your argument is invalid just for the simple fact that you said "if we apply that to the srx series...".. we aren't talking about the srx series. We are talking about the ARX series. In Roland's marketing, they said that they used a "best of" from the SRX line... so if they did that then evaluated their sample set... they may have felt that the EPs, the Drums, and the Brass were the only instruments that needed to be developed further.... but like you said, i don't know and you don't either. My statement was merely a hypothesis or just something for us to think about.

apex wrote:

maybe people should spend more time criticizing themselves as to what they "could" have become or the music they "could" have made if they'd not spent so much time wasting on what the G "could" have been or "could" have done...

Seriously, does that part of your post makes any sense? Maybe you have some complaints about the car you bought? Well, instead of complaining, just walk and improve your walking skills instead of complaining about the car...
I remember your posts where you were discussing for weeks about whether you should buy/sell/exchange this or that instrument. How much time you have wasted with buying decision posts instead of focusing on what you already had at that time.

Yes I think it does make sense. That is why I typed it. (I don't type stuff if I don't think it makes sense... do you? You're reference to a car doesn't fit here... in your reference, the equivalent would be to use OTHER means to make music other than the G (if you have complaints about it.) it would take an idiot to purchase a car, and then have complaints about it, and NOT DRIVE IT... and decide to just walk... The car will still get you from point A to B, just like the G still makes great music (despite the complaints that one may have....), so I said don't spend time complaining about the same stuff, but spend time making music my friend!!!!

apex wrote:

i'll tell you something completely retarded that I noticed about the kronos and the jp80 before they even came out and people really got a chance to see what they sounded like. Immediately after spec release on the Kronos people were asking "what expansion possibilities are there"... right after spec release for the jp80... people were asking "why did roland put out a keyboard with out expansion possibilities"

Yes, I agree with you completely on that one. But you should also know that Roland pushes very very hard on that expansion game. That is their marketing decision for years and decades. Just count the number of sr-jv and srx expansions. It's by far the biggest sample/sound library compared to the competition. And often it appears that Roland don't put the best sounds into the factory rom of the keyboards, instead, they put them on the expansion boards to gain more money.
So, I don't wonder why some people expect expansions before they even realize how the keyboard itself sounds.
But, just to make clear, in my previous post I was talking about the factory provided wave rom of the fantom g, and not what should be on expansion boards.

but did Roland actually say that they were going to release more than 3 supernatural technology boards? and have they said they won't release any more? again... just because the SRX and JV technology "needed" all those expansions to bring the sound library up to par doesn't mean the G (or anything else) will need that many expansions to be generally accepted as "good enough"

apex wrote:

does that make sense? Maybe I'm just blind or deaf... but the sounds on the Fantom G (pianos. or anything else that we WANT expanded) are not that bad. there are somethings that could be improved on, but not exactly things that we have to use expansion cards for....

The reason I purchased the arx drum card is because of the ability to have my drums on their OWN mixer part... not because the drum sounds were lacking.... I purchased the arx ep card just a month or so ago (i've had my fantom g for over a year now)... but i bought the ep card just because I wanted to try it out and I got it brand new in box for $58 w/ free shipping. I considered the brass card, but as you know I only had two spots. the acoustic brass on the g are fine to me... so I did what I felt was best.

Ok, let's see your equipment. I'm copying it from your equipment list from the Korg forum:

Triton Extr-88
M3-M(Radias,EXB-M256)
Roland Fantom G7(ARX-01, ARX-02,1 GB Ram)
Yamaha Motif Rack XS
Roland XV-5080 Xpanded SRX SRJV
Fantom XR

Now, please explain to me, you have 6 devices and yet you had the need to expand the M3, the XV and even the Fantom G with 2 arx cards??????
You bought the drum ARX because you wanted drums on their own mixer part? Don't you know that you have 128 midi channels on the FG? You could simply connect any of those devices you have to the FG and have the drums on its own mixer part. You bought the e. piano card just to try it out? Don't you have more than enough and good e. pianos from your existing 6 instruments?

My current gear setup has NOTHING to do with this argument at all.... but to satisfy your questions and be fair, I'll address your comments

I never got a chance to work with the MOSS board in the old Triton days and I have nothing at all that resembles a real VA... so I wanted to try the Radias card and see what a VA was capable of (at least to some extent) The RAM that was purchased for the m3 was because there were some sounds that I used very frequently (in a module... Roland MKS-20/P-330) that I had in soundfont format, so since the M3 could read soundfonts, I got a RAM module so I could load them into the m3.

XV is just expansion cards that I've kept over the last year or so from equipment that has come through me. (I buy and sell used gear... I'll fill you in on that a little later.)

Fantom G expansions...
Drums - You're saying I don't know how to use the gear that I have? and you're saying that the Fantom G has 128 midi channels? LOL!!!!! The Fantom G has 128 midi tracks. but guess what, if I use 8 of those midi tracks to record my drums, and the drums are ALL connected to Midi channel 10... I won't have the ability to raise or lower volume of individual parts of my drum kit (without going in and modifying velocities, which no one wants to do). Now there is an alternative where you could just put each part of your drum kit on a different part, but then you lose 8 parts of your studio set to drums.... NOT GOOD!!!! So you purchase the ARX drum card and now each piece of your drum kit it on IT"S OWN MIXER CHANNEL... each with its own Compressor switch, HI EQ knob, Low EQ knob, reverb send, pan, and most important... LEVEL/VOLUME.... to me this is THE MOST useful ARX card for this feature alone. That's the reason I kept the ARX drum card when it came through my hands.

EPs - I got it for $58 including shipping... WHY NOT BUY IT.... PLUS All 6 of those devices don't go everywhere with me... but I can take the Fantom G7 (without a 6u SKB case) and wow... I've got nice EPs... on the card and off the card!!!!

apex wrote:

I know I don't have to read the complaints...but it seems like they just come with the territory. I like the roland clan forum and i like reading what guys post... but the complaints ABOUT THE SAME THINGS OVER AND OVER AND OVER... just go ON AND ON AND ON.

let's make music with the instruments that Roland has given us. Not make war with Roland for not giving us what we thought they should have!!!!

Nobody makes war. People discuss. You don't need to read. And you don't need to post. It doesn't make any sense when you complain about how other people want expansion cards, and yet you buy them like crazy because among 4 hardware modules and dozens of software instruments, besides Logic Pro or Ableton, you don't realize that you don't need a drum arx card to have drums on a separate channel. It doesn't seem to me that you really know how to use all the equipment you have. From that perspective I absolutely don't see how your complains about other peoples complains could be justified or understandable.

IMHO, there is absolutely nothing wrong with any complain that comes from a person who uses the instrument and masters it inside out. Those people know what they are talking about. On the contrary, jumping into a discussion and making some general statements about how people should "make music" instead of complaining or simply sell it, just doesn't make any sense.

Nobody makes war... LOL... you couldn't be reading some of the same stuff I've read about Roland as it relates to the Fantom G... guys HATE THEM FOR WHAT THEY DID (roland) I can post all I want to post. And more importantly, this THREAD is dedicated SPECIFICALLY to people who "moan" and the "moaning" that people are doing about the Fantom G. Not for them to "moan", but WHY THEY ARE MOANING...

As far as all my gear is concerned... You kinda sound salty because of the gear that I own... I bet you'd still be complaining about your Fantom G and its lackluster internal wave ROM, if you had what I've got. Sounds are the last thing in the world that ANYONE should be complaining about... features... maybe we can understand that... but there are MORE THAN ENOUGH SOUNDS AVAILABLE TO ALL OF US... it's hard to see how anyone complains about sounds and their availability. I find it funny that you don't think I know how to use the gear that I have. maybe you don't know how to use the gear you have... if you did you wouldn't be on a forum complaining... you'd be somewhere with a microphone trying to sample the sounds you do need.

based on that you certainly couldn't be one of those that has "mastered" his gear inside and out... if so you'd have no reason to complain about the Fantom G and it's sound sets.

I didn't just jump into this conversation. I've been reading it since it started. I just saw a post and it made me want to post a response.

No harm no foul!!! at the end of the day, all of this is just our opinion. Roland is not going to change anything based completely on what we say we need/want. So we are just here talking. I just said, it's crazy how MUCH people complain about the Fantom G. I've never seen/heard/read/been around or apart of so much complaining about one instrument. (not from the same people, complaining about the same thing over and over.... the sound set is no more bad than it was the last time you or anyone else posted about it.

For the record. People complain more than they praise. The people that you hear from are the complainers and not the praisers. And forums just like this help me make my purchases when I have to make them... so to help there be a balance for the new guy in a year or so that's considering purchasing the Fantom G, THERE HAS TO BE GUYS LIKE ME TO GIVE BALANCE WITH GUYS LIKE YOU. If everything I read about the Fantom G was bad... I'd never have purchased one. But there were guys out there that brought the good to light and I'm just returning the favor to someone else.

All kinds of gear comes through my hands at unbelievable prices. So I take chances and try stuff out. If it's not what I need or what I thought it would be.... I get rid of it. You have the same opportunity... right? Anyway, it's allowed me the opportunity to be blessed with some great gear that I greatly appreciate. There have been things that have come through that I thought I would be able to utilize, but when I realized I could not... I sold it. Not kept it and complained about it!!!!

Good day!!!! again... no harm no foul. just opinions!!!

Triton Extr-88
M3-M(Radias,EXB-M256)
Roland Fantom G7(ARX-01, ARX-02,1 GB Ram)
Yamaha Motif Rack XS
Roland XV-5080 Xpanded SRX SRJV
Fantom XR

Is this a live rig ? To me your set up looks duplicative...how do You use this set up ? What's the logic behind it..it appears very workstation Based / sample based sounds...

aster wrote:

Triton Extr-88
M3-M(Radias,EXB-M256)
Roland Fantom G7(ARX-01, ARX-02,1 GB Ram)
Yamaha Motif Rack XS
Roland XV-5080 Xpanded SRX SRJV
Fantom XR

Is this a live rig ? To me your set up looks duplicative...how do You use this set up ? What's the logic behind it..it appears very workstation Based / sample based sounds...

should we start another thread about this in a different section? this could change subjects real fast....

aster wrote:

Triton Extr-88
M3-M(Radias,EXB-M256)
Roland Fantom G7(ARX-01, ARX-02,1 GB Ram)
Yamaha Motif Rack XS
Roland XV-5080 Xpanded SRX SRJV
Fantom XR

Is this a live rig ? To me your set up looks duplicative...how do You use this set up ? What's the logic behind it..it appears very workstation Based / sample based sounds...

When you say how is it used? what exactly do you mean?

yes it is mostly for live. but does get studio work. somewhat duplicated... but still different sound.

logic behind it?

Apex,
there is no need to post in bold. Ok? It's almost the same as screaming.

apex wrote:

And more importantly, this THREAD is dedicated SPECIFICALLY to people who "moan" and the "moaning" that people are doing about the Fantom G. Not for them to "moan", but WHY THEY ARE MOANING...

Who said and decided what this thread is for?
This thread started as a complete nonsense, posted in the greatest troll fashion. Let me quote:

A lot of people moan and complain about this fantastic piece of equipment instead of use it

Don't you see how stupid this is? One person should stop complaining about something, because another one thinks that the first one doesn't use the "fantastic piece of equipment".

apex wrote:

As far as all my gear is concerned... You kinda sound salty because of the gear that I own... I bet you'd still be complaining about your Fantom G and its lackluster internal wave ROM, if you had what I've got. Sounds are the last thing in the world that ANYONE should be complaining about... features... maybe we can understand that... but there are MORE THAN ENOUGH SOUNDS AVAILABLE TO ALL OF US... it's hard to see how anyone complains about sounds and their availability

Relax. I'm not jealous on your equipment. Even not about the fact that you have a Kronos on order to put it as the 7th equipment to your gear list. Your problem is, that you don't understand what other people write: the last parts were not about the number of available sounds, but about the quality. Not quaNTity, but quaLity. Not how much, but how good. And I personally didn't say that the FG doesn't sound good. I just said it could sound much better by the use of what Roland already has.

apex wrote:

I find it funny that you don't think I know how to use the gear that I have. maybe you don't know how to use the gear you have... if you did you wouldn't be on a forum complaining... you'd be somewhere with a microphone trying to sample the sounds you do need.

Yes, I was taking the risk that you'll consider that part as an offensive one.
Let me just explain it to you. I have very rarely read a complain here without an argument why somebody thinks that this or that on the FG doesn't work very well. Unfortunately some other people who think that having a FG is something about making a religious choice step in preaching this bullshit about making music and using the gear instead of complaining about it.

When it comes to your part, I've read your posts in the past, and not a long time ago you still asked some very basic questions about how the FG functions or does things. And from that perspective you probably don't even understand why some people may feel so upset or do complain so much. Because you never ran into those problems that often comes when you really learn the more complex stuff about how the device really works. But you still ask other people to "spend more time criticizing themselves as to what they "could" have become or the music they "could" have made, instead of wasting time on what the G could have been". (Your words).
See, we are still talking about WHY they are moaning. Probably because they use some features that you probably don't even know that they are there.
If you still don't understand what the complaining is all about, let's try another example:
If you use MS Word to write a few sentences here and there, you'll never find anything wrong or critical about MS Word. But if you try to write a 500 page scientific book with hundreds of footnotes, cross notes, diagrams, pictures, citations, paragraph styles, you'll maybe find a couple of things to complain about how Word handles this or that.
Further, you are talking about how people ask for expansions before even some keyboard is released, but you have almost all your devices fully expanded. And besides all your gear and even more on the software side, you need a drum arx card to have it on a separate mix channel in the FG sequencer, instead of putting any of your hardware devices to be used for the drum part on the separate channel. If you had used any of your devices for your drum channel, you would be able to have a separate mix channel for every single drum element, not just the whole kit as you have on the drums arx because it works on only one track.

apex wrote:

based on that you certainly couldn't be one of those that has "mastered" his gear inside and out... if so you'd have no reason to complain about the Fantom G and it's sound sets.

Give me a break. Who has a reason to complain? Somebody who knows a device inside and out or somebody who barely knows where the device is turned on or off? Just read again my example with MS Word.

apex wrote:

Roland is not going to change anything based completely on what we say we need/want. So we are just here talking.

True. But people were naive in the beginning and thought that Roland handles their customers in a similar way as any other music company does.

apex wrote:

I just said, it's crazy how MUCH people complain about the Fantom G. I've never seen/heard/read/been around or apart of so much complaining about one instrument. (not from the same people, complaining about the same thing over and over.... the sound set is no more bad than it was the last time you or anyone else posted about it.

Great. The light is finally coming to you. Now, the last step for you would be to ask yourself which fault is it, that different people complain all the time from the very beginning up to the last days. Is it God, punishing Roland for some sins and sending them the wrong customers, or is it something else? What do you think? And BTW, it's not about sounds. That was just a small part of the whole discussion.

apex wrote:

And forums just like this help me make my purchases when I have to make them... so to help there be a balance for the new guy in a year or so that's considering purchasing the Fantom G, THERE HAS TO BE GUYS LIKE ME TO GIVE BALANCE WITH GUYS LIKE YOU.

Oh how sweet! You are defending the FG against those bad guys like me. And you think that you are competent to give a balance with me or some others? Thank you but I'm not a child. I'm certainly able to give a balanced view, pointing clearly out the good side and the bad side of the instrument to somebody who asks for a buying decision. You still don't understand that complaining doesn't mean hating.

apex wrote:

All kinds of gear comes through my hands at unbelievable prices. So I take chances and try stuff out. If it's not what I need or what I thought it would be.... I get rid of it. You have the same opportunity... right? Anyway, it's allowed me the opportunity to be blessed with some great gear that I greatly appreciate. There have been things that have come through that I thought I would be able to utilize, but when I realized I could not... I sold it. Not kept it and complained about it!!!!

I know one thing that often appears to be the case:
the more gear you have, the less you know about how each one works on the deepest possible level.

quick reply before I actually read everything you posted... (i just saw the first line)

I wasn't screaming by posting in bold. I Just did that to respond to each part of your post. because of the way you responded to the different sections of my post. I'll try to figure out a better way to do that next time.

who said I have a Kronos on order?

as far as the ARX Drums is concerned... if I'm working specifically on the Fantom G or using the Fantom G by itself in a live way... then your solution is a MUTE point....

other than that... I'm done. Arguing is not what I'd intended to happen from my post. I apologize if I offended you in any way. (or anyone else for that matter)

like I said, at the end of the day, you still have your opinion and I still have mine. That's clear. Maybe we can come to terms on something else...but here we just agree to disagree on this one.

(sorry I've got so much gear!!!! LOL)

later. I'm done here.