RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids?? - RD-700 / 800 series

RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

4 Sep 2008, 17:31

Hi,

I'm new to this forum, but have been happily playing an RD700 since it came out in 2001. I am not super-picky about piano patches: I don't own a sampler or workstation or even any SRX cards. I use my keyboard for worship music services and events, for recreational solo piano, and for garage/basement ban fun times with friends. My most often-used patches were St. Concert 1 (the default) and Band Piano 1 (to cut through the mix), with an occasional foray into some of the other good accoustic piano patches on that board. Anyway...

I recently purchased an RD700*GX* for my church, to be played mainly by me in our new contemporary worship service. I figured, 2 generations down the line (or 3 if you count the mysterious 750) this great board could have only gotten better, right? I ordered one without really bothering to preview them in stores. Mistake. After it was already on the way, I did play one in a Guitar Ctr., but didn't think much of the honky mids cause I figured it could be the speakers there, or something.

So I take the thing out of the box yesterday, and it is beautiful. Love the keys. Love all the features, all the detailed editing you can do. One problem: the raw material for that editing is absolute crap. Most of the piano patches on the 700GX sound like someone took the patches from the 700, turned the Mid EQ knob all the way up, and then sampled them. Am I crazy or can someone else with experience with both these boards feel my pain? [For reference, I'm playing through the same KC500 that I use for my old 700, in the same room, near side-by-side comparison.]

I spent a good chunk of today fiddling with the 4-band EQ, trying to turn "Expressive Grand" into something I can actually stand to play. Superior Grand is not superior, and Ultimate Grand is ultimately horrible. I cut 800 Hz and 1600 Hz and that gets rid of most of the offensive honky tinny mids, but it still doesn't sound *good*.

I have always been a fan of Roland ever since I played the RD600 at a worship leader workshop once and though "I need to get one of these" - I soon got the 700. I just don't understand how they could take some of the best piano sounds around and totally mess them up before putting them on a sweet keyboard with phenomenal features for a stage piano in the GX. I really want to like this thing! All the other sounds are as good or better than their predecessors, and the realfeel keys are great, etc.

If anyone has any editing or other suggestions, I'm listening =) I feel dumb for having us buy this keyboard and now being disappointed with it. Maybe I should run out and buy an expensive EQ unit that can make tighter and more accurate notches... but I shouldn't have to do that just to get good piano sounds out of a top of the line digital piano! What happened to the good samples from RDs past?

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

5 Sep 2008, 16:10

Hi jesujuvaou and welcome to the forum.

There are not many rd700 posters or topics on this forum. The synths/workstations are so powerful and complicated that there are a lot of posts about these. You could try the search function on this site and put in rd700 or rd700gx.

If what you are saying is true and the pianos have been eq'd not to your liking then I would send it back and get a used rd700. Sound is definitely a personal preference and if you find something that works I would stay with it.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

7 Jul 2010, 15:25

jesujuvaou,

I was about to write an almost identical message when I found your post from 2008. I bought the RD-700GX last week and have had a very similar experience. By coincidence, I also use the RD in a worship context.

I'm disappointed with the mid-range sounds - especially in the octave below middle-C. I have been impressed by this keyboard in every other respect, but the samples in this octave sound thin and boxy. When I trialled it in the music shop I put this down to the poor speakers. I got it home and found the same issue with my dependable KC-300 amp.

I thought I was going mad because everyone else was raving about this online.

I'm interested to know how your story turned out? Have you persevered? Did you find a solution?

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

7 Jul 2010, 16:16

I sold mine after 4 months I think... same experience !

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

7 Jul 2010, 16:22

I suggest you purchase and install the SuperNATURAL piano expansion board. It's one of the few reasons I would consider buying the RD-700GX in the first place. Solo recording quality - no other DP can really say that.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

8 Jul 2010, 14:40

I think the KC keyboard amps that are mentioned here are MONO instead of STEREO. (Except, of course if you use a stereo link.)
That is a very likely cause for bad sound. As strange as it may seem, keyboard amps are often very unsuitable for stage pianos. That's because the piano sounds in it absolutely need stereo. Try monitor speakers or a PA system instead. Then make sure that left is absolutely on the left channel, and right is on right (if you use a mixer, you may end up with both channels played through the center...)

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

8 Jul 2010, 15:44

Just picked up my new RD 700-GX this past December. Had an older Fender keyboard amp, but it was mono, without stereo.

After renting a PA system, I was sold on this option.

Have since purcahsed the Yamaha Stage Pass 500 and it sounds great, especially after buying the new Supernatural Piano up-grade. Still not quite as great a sound as when heard through headphones, but it is as good as you can get, without going too crazy in throwing a lot of money at it (although the Stage Pas 500 is just under $1,000 Cdn.)

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

17 Jul 2010, 15:08

Thanks for the comments about running in stereo. I was sceptical, but have set up my full PA in the dining room, wired for stereo. The results are much more pleasing and I am starting to get a much more favourable sound.

Now coming to terms with the prospect of lugging twice as much gear around...

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

17 Jul 2010, 21:16

I have the same expecience with Kc-550 (lot of punch, but mono). I sold my KC and exchange for Yamaha Monitors 8" and Supernatural. Completely satisfied now.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

28 Sep 2010, 10:11

I purchased my RD700GX a few months ago having tested it in a showroom using headphones. I don’t use the RD700 for gigs – its for home use and I am very disappointed in the piano sound quality through my Yamaha Tyros stereo amplifier. Through the Tyros amp its tinny, honkey tonk and not at all the good quality sound I get through the headphones (and I didn’t buy expensive headphones).

I realize the Tyros amp is designed for keyboards not digital pianos and I also realise that I might improve sound quality if I install the SUPERNatural Piano extension board but I would be happy if I could simply reproduce the sound from the headphones through some speakers.

I have been advised to try Roland KC 350 Amp, ART 310A active speakers and Warfdale Titon 12 and reading the posts on this forum and others it seems I am not alone with this problem. I live far away from showrooms to try out the gear so I would be interested in hearing from anyone who managed to find an amplifier and speakers that gives the same sound quality as they get through the headphones?

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

28 Sep 2010, 14:47

It's hard to match the sonic quality of even rather inexpensive headphones with speakers. And speaker / amp setups that are geared more towards loudness, such as keyboard gig amps, tend to trade flat frequency response for efficiency and portability.

What's your budget and how loud do you want it to get? I tend to go DIY with speakers as you can buy much better drivers raw than you can in preassembled speakers. Kits are nice here too, as they generally have good drivers and well designed crossovers. Definitely build a stereo system. I'd recommend a 6" to 8" woofer in a sealed (not ported) enclosure, with a 1" soft dome tweeter. Spend around $30 to $50 per driver. Second order electrical crossover on the woofer, third order on the tweeter. Drive it with an inexpensive home stereo or modular amp. If you want more bass, build a subwoofer.

http://www.parts-express.com/home.cfm is where I buy most of my stuff, their Dayton drivers are quite nice for the money. I'd avoid horn mids or tweets for close monitoring. There are some drivers now that are pretty hi-fi for PA drivers, I tend to look at those a lot as I like high efficiency drivers that can play loud, yet have fairly flat frequency response.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

28 Sep 2010, 18:39

Thanks for the suggestions.
I am using the RD700 in a 20 x 25 ft lounge so I wouldn't want it louder than an acoustic piano. My Tyros amp is only 65w and that'sloud enouoh. I think DIY is out of the question as not only am I not an electronics wiz but I have impaired vision, However, I might be able to get a radio ham friend to build a stereo system for me. Problem is knowing what spec to give him. I was not planning on spending more than 300 dollars.

Roland tech suppor recommended I use Studio Speakers but didn't give me a spec. You'd think they would know exactly which stereo system gave the best sound.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

29 Sep 2010, 01:37

For home use i would go for some studio monitors... i ran my RD through some KRK V6's and they sound superb.. Personally i think 6" are a good compromise between attack, transparency and frequency response.

If you wish to go for amp+speakers IMO you will need more than 65W of total amplification though... its not a question of loudness, as typical average power is likely to be <1W, but the ability to drive current into the speakers in transients is the key issue.

for your budget i would look at ebay for studio (powered) monitors from KRK, Yamaha and Monitor Audio.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

29 Sep 2010, 02:34

>>>the raw material for that editing is absolute crap. Most of the piano patches on the 700GX sound like someone took the patches from the 700, turned the Mid EQ knob all the way up, and then sampled them.

bingo, it was exactly the case I spoke with roland representative.

Re: RD700GX versus OLD 700 - honky mids??

29 Sep 2010, 03:19

I'm not sure I understand the term 'patch' in the context of the RD700GX. What I thought initially was that I could create the piano sound I wanted with the designer function but tweaking the knobs only made the sound worse to my ears.

Through the headphones the Ultimate Piano sounds the best with more depth than the other tones. But when I play through the Tyros Amp, Ultimate Piano is tinny at the top end and woolly at the bottom. Its as though I had a damper pressed against the strings after middle C.

What you say delirium about what Roland did with the samples does not ring true. I'm not so sure we are getting fact from Roland Representatives. I was surprised that my Rep in UK was not aware of the problem. Dont' they read these messages boards?

I'll investigate the KRK range.