New keyboard from Roland???

As far as the import of multi samples is concerned: read this review of the Fantom S88, and you'll see that one of the cons the reviewer mentioned was 'No existing multisampled instrument libraries can be imported'.
Instead of listening to what this reviewer pointed out in 2003, Roland to this day never implemented such a feature (and an important one IMO).

I sure hope that when Roland releases a new workstation they have paid attention to the way KORG interacts with and listens to their customer base, and implements user requests.

And speaking of a new workstation, other than the rumor in the video clip I have not heard or read any other hint about the 'new keyboard'.

As asked before

Do we realy need to wait for roland to provide the next workstation?
there are plenty of other choices out there already.

Sound wise... the Fantom G is more than sonically capable of producing whatever kind of sound you require already and beyond.

What could roland offer anymore that is not just the same tech inside a new box anyway?
and if its the same tech you may as well go get some vintage roland gear at knock down prices.
Are we still waiting for that magic button?
If were not already making music with what we got its all just a waste of time and money.
In the last few years there have only been 2 mile stones for roland

1) Fantom

2) V Synth

even the JP80 is just G tech in another form
Everything else has been the same tech over and over
When you`ve got what you got its time to forget the waiting and start making music.

How can you possibly say the Jupiter is the G in another form? I've had the G and have the V and Jupiter. The Jupiter is more related to the V than it is to the G. Outside of the limited ARX cards the sound engines aren't even the same. Furthermore, Roland clearly improved the SN engine between the Fantom G and Jupiter. The G also doesn't even have a VA .. It is entirely PCM based in that department. Not to mention the fact that the Jupiter doesn't have sampling.

How can you possibly say the Jupiter is the G in another form?

Very simple.. The G had ARX capability built in as an add on
the JP80 has has ARX as standard soundset.
The only other thing that sets it apart from the G is FX routing and a few software tweeks.
apart from that its still the same tech with less features than the G.
so we have the usual upward and iverse curve of roland development..

Give something you dont have and take away what you already have
sampler, sequencer etc..
one way or another its the same tech since the G just presented in a different way.

Hey you guys. If there was going to be a 2.0 for the G it would have already happened by now in my opinion. 1.50 is over two years old and it surely doesn't take two years to put together a 2.0 update for the G right?

The FG needs some attention, but unfortunately, I don't think a 2.0 update is forthcoming. The reason I think Roland gave up on the idea was because the global economy tanked and the current 1.50 is already pretty decent, albeit, not perfect. Instead of spending more on R&D Roland decided, in the interim, to hedge its bets on the Jupiter-80 project and on some lower end stuff. With a weak economy people were unable in many cases to afford higher end products so Roland concentrated on mostly middle of the road stuff with one exception being the Jupiter-80. At least that's how I see it. On the extreme upper end Roland did produce the V-Piano and some high-end console products. The rich usually have money to burn so the really expensive products are still in demand to a certain degree. Higher end products bring a bigger return for the investment so Roland is still able to make out like hogan's goat in the upper end segment of the market where it seems the rich are still spending extravagantly on expensive items.

For mass-produced consumer products like high-end workstation keyboards, after the economy tanked, working class middle-income earners suffered the most, and therefore, in many cases were unable to scrounge up $4,000 to spend frivolously on non-essential items. There is now a sense the economy could be improving enough so that hopefully more middle-class wage earners will be able to afford the upcoming... brand spanking new... FULL-BLOWN workstation keyboard, which apparently Roland will be showcasing at Winter NAMM '13 or perhaps sooner! :)

Seriously though. This is extremely good news if indeed it's really true! A DREAM MACHINE that will smoke the Kronos X and the Motif XF - is highly anticipated and much welcomed I might add too. In fact, the current FG is still an awesome keyboard and the guy in the video seemed to agree. But after 5 years Roland needed to give it the old college try once again, in order to "keep up with the Joneses" in regards to cutting edge features and hopefully with a brand new sound set. And the mystery deepens!

Of course because of the secretive nature of Roland and company (just ask Secret Roland Agent if you still have any doubts ;) it's likely we won't know... what's what... until the last second. You have to hand it to Roland. They're at least consistent in being secretive, so we can't fault them for being duplicitous, right? ;)

Although I would much rather have Roland communicating with their customers online just like Korg and Yamaha do. To each his own I reckon. I'm certain it affects their bottom line negatively though. If a company makes an effort to be interested and involved in the very people they are trying to get to buy their products, it creates a "bond" between the customer(s) and the company, which then tends to cause and create repeat business for that company. I guess Roland sees it differently. Maybe they make sooooooooo much money they deem it unnecessary to go the extra mile?? Although Yamaha is ranked number one in keyboard sales and they still interact with their customers on a routine basis. So logically that theory doesn't hold water. Okay, I'll shut up now. :D

keysme wrote:

If there was going to be a 2.0 for the G it would have already happened by now in my opinion.

Yeah, it is time for 3.0!!!

keysme wrote:

just ask Secret Roland Agent if you still have any doubts ;)

No thanks. I don't want to be [Deleted by secret Roland agent]

Hey keysme, I think you're probably right about all that. I think though next year it's time for the fifth fantom! Things have moved one a bit and I'd like to see one like the G but with the full supernatural engine, on board flash ram of up to 2gb, improved sequencer and sampling engine and FX structures like the Jupiter. I enjoy my fantom g6 and I'm sure it will last for years but I'd be interested to see if they continue the idea. As a workstation concept I prefer it. They should have done that OS update though...

Quinnx. wrote:

How can you possibly say the Jupiter is the G in another form?

Very simple.. The G had ARX capability built in as an add on
the JP80 has has ARX as standard soundset.
The only other thing that sets it apart from the G is FX routing and a few software tweeks.
apart from that its still the same tech with less features than the G.
so we have the usual upward and iverse curve of roland development..

Give something you dont have and take away what you already have
sampler, sequencer etc..
one way or another its the same tech since the G just presented in a different way.

.

The G had limited SN capability. It was limited to 3 ARX cards that were released and the SN technology has clearly been further developed and improved since that time. There are far more SN scoustic sounds on the Jupiter and as a G owner you should understand that it is no small task to create the engine behind each SN sound. And very importantly, the G has no VA at all. How can you overlook that very significant difference?

I'm not trying to bag on the G, but to say that the Jupiter is essentially a repackage is completely delusional and misinformed.

VA is not exclusive to the JP80 it appears in many other of their products that why i say its the same ol tech just repackaged.
as far a synthesis goes in general, there is just no limit to what can be produced on the G so sonically its still af future worthy keyboard. those who have the jp im sure are happy with it. Im simply talking about what we can expect on the next release from roland and why we dont need to be waiting for it.

Quinnx. wrote:

VA is not exclusive to the JP80 it appears in many other of their products that why i say its the same ol tech just repackaged.

I agree with Bruce, the JP is an entirely different beast than the FG, and instead of putting the FG among Roland's milestones I would place the JP there instead.

If repackaged old technology is reason for you not to be interested in a product let alone buy it, then out goes the KRONOS, away with the Motif as well as the PC3 series.
And of course if you owned a Fantom X you did not buy a Fantom G since this is also just the same old/same old with a couple of things added (as well as omitted)?

The JP builds further on the V-technology Roland introduced years ago, but it does so in a sonically unique way.
I would LOVE to see a workstation developing this technology further.
That's one of the reasons I decided not to buy a JP: I hoped Roland would come up with the V-engine in a workstation format.

You're always going to see companies building further on existing technology, only the way in which a company does this and adds to it may result in a new instrument with lots of appeal.
You can't expect a company to come up with a completely new philosophy and reinvent the universe with each instrument they deliver to the market, can you?
I don't think that is realistic.
The V-tech is part of Roland's vision, just as the multi-engine platform of the OASYS is part of KORG's vision.

Quinnx. wrote:

Im simply talking about what we can expect on the next release from roland and why we dont need to be waiting for it.

Aren't you at least curious about new developments in the keys department?
I am, and I always make sure to keep up with the latest news about what's in the works.
Whenever there's a NAMM of Musikmesse I tend to check each day for news.

This does not mean that I do not use what I have at this moment.
But being a keyboard player I am always very interested in what's up in keyboard world and the new possibilities new keyboards can offer.

And given the history of Roland I am very interested in what they may come up with now.
My only concern is the timing.
Last time Roland introduced the FG, the financial system looked as if it was going to implode.
This time we may be facing a collapse of the Euro in addition to a war in the Middle East.
When and if that happens, who will have the money or the inclination to buy a new workstation?

Being curious to find more about the JP80, I downloaded the manuals online to read the specs, pro editing features etc. I was surprised to find that the supernatural engine provides only about 120 (preset) tones. Also, it's more like a supernatural in miniature imo. The ARX 03 brass is much more complex than the equivalent SN tones inside JP80. There are merely a few parameters to tweak. The SN synth engine on the other hand, just like Quinxx says, is pretty similar to the G, with only a few different specific parameters, but the G has it's own advantages there as well. I was even more surprised to see that even if there are about 1900 synth tones, if the wave parameter is set to PCM there are only... 363 waves to select from. Plus 5 or 6 more with the so called VA section, wich has only 2 or 3 parameters in extra. Coupled with the SN acoustic engine, the overall wave power of the JP80 seems a little below 500 waveforms. Compare this with the 2230 internal and 2000 samples of the Fantom. To be honest, I wouldn't trade the G8 for the JP considering the above, unless I'm missing something :)

@Jan_nl

Since i have the X the G the V original and XT I pretty much have every combination of conceivable synthesis in the roland armory so for me i don't see anything new that is not just a repeat of all of this.
and given they are independent makes for alot of power too. People build too much on an all in one and miss out on the power of independent units and how future proof they are compared to trading up and up on workstations all the while demising there value and usefulness .

It drives me crazy when people speculate, like the dude in this video, about what any company is rumored to have coming out. (The iPhone 6 rumors are enough for me. Please.) I am not surprised that the guy in the video would like the G piano over the Motif or Kronos. (Follow me @DanFromRoland.)

Hi Dan, Long time no see.....

Well, hello there and welcome back, Dan :) (even if the G forum is probably not such a nice place to be).
As for the dude in the video, he says that he has a friend who works for Roland, and that's how he knows the future plans..
Now that's a job for the secret Roland agent :)