V-Synth

Modulation Exploration

Modulation Exploration

26 Nov 2006, 22:50
Greetings

Ummm... Artemio, in the V-Synth TweakBook, Modulation Exploration chapter, Ring Modulator, you say,

"Mathematically, for each two input frequencies f1 and f2, the ring modulator produces two other frequencies f1 - f2 and f1 + f2. For instance, if it has two sine waves on the inputs, one at 300 and another at 200 Hz, two components of 100 and 500 Hz will be at the output."

Question, are the two other fequencies that are produced by the ring modulator fixed or variable?






filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 02:03
Hey there!

Ring mod basically just multiplies the input signals: signal1 x signal2. So the sound totally depends on what these signals are - e.g. their frequency and shape.

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 02:54
Hows things Artemio?

Ummm... multiplies? By what? An Octave?

If the two input signals are 300 and 200 Hz and the newly added fequencies are 100 and 500 Hz output, what formula has been devised in order to add the components of 100 and 500 Hz, is there an equation and is it random or is it specific?

Signal1 x Signal2 = 600 Hz not 500 Hz and where does the 100 Hz come from?





filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 03:19
Hows things Artemio?
Tweaking away, as always ;-)
Ummm... multiplies? By what? An Octave?
No, it multiplies the signal amplitude values. Let's say we have signals A(t) and B(t) where A and B are amplitude values and t is time. Then at any given point in time t1 the output of the ring modulator will be A(t1)*B(t1).

It's just that if you analyze the result harmonically you will see the frequency content changed so that for each couple of frequencies in signals A and B you have their sum and difference in the ring modulator's output.

Hope I didn't put more confusion ;-)

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 04:31
Yep, got that. Ummm... signal amplitude values, does this mean that the output signals (amplitude) of the OSC1 and OSC2 be regulated via the Wave Gain pot before entering the Ring Modulator? Is it as simple as that? Or is there a little more to this 'Signal Amplitude Values'?

Artemio, thanks for your time and knowledge, it's greatly appreciated, the input and feedback is invaluable!






filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 04:34
My pleasure, filosofem!

And yes, the Wave Gain and TVA Level affect the OSC 1/2 signals before they reach the ring mod.

RM clarifications

27 Nov 2006, 13:41
I'd add a couple points of clarification here:

1. While classic Ring Modulation does indeed produce the sum and difference of the two input frequencies, it also suppresses the input frequencies. So, for example, given two sine wave inputs, one at 300Hz and one at 200Hz, the output of the RM will only be the sum and the difference frequencies:

300 + 200 = 500
300 - 200 = 100

The original input frequencies (300 & 200) are not present in the output. Note also that the output signal consists of just two sine wave frequencies. This would give an odd two-tone sound, and not quite the clangorous, 'metallic' sound of RM as we've come to know it. For that, you need more complex input signals (more on that in a moment).

2. If we change the frequency of the second input to match the first, we get an interesting result:

300 + 300 = 600
300 - 300 = 0

In this case, the output of the RM has exactly doubled the input. This mean that you can use an RM as a frequency doubler. The catch is that it only works when two sine waves are applied.

3. When you use complex waves (saw, square, triangle, sampled waves, etc) the sum and difference of each of the wave's harmonic components comes into play, with a complex result. When complex waves are used, the RM output consists of sidebands of frequencies (similar to FM) that have a sound best described as clangerous, or metallic. The math gets complicated pretty quickly, but here's the idea using square waves as an example:

A square wave consists only of odd harmonics, so a 100Hz square wave will have a harmonic series based on odd multiples of 100: 300Hz, 500 Hz, 700Hz, 900Hz, etc.

Similarly, a 250 Hz square wave will have a harmonic series based on odd multiples of 250: 750Hz, 1250Hz, 1750Hz, etc.

By applying these two frequencies to a Ring Modulator, every harmonic of the first input frequency (100Hz) will interact with every harmonic of the second input frequency (250Hz). So, starting with the fundamental of the first frequency, the sums are:

100 + 250 = 350
100 + 750 = 850
100 + 1250 = 1350
etc.

and the differences are:

100 - 250 = -150
100 - 750 = -650
100 - 1250 = -1150
etc.

It should be noted that in this case all of the difference frequencies are mathematically negative. What actually happens is that these frequencies become phase shifted by 180 degrees, i.e. inverted, so you can simply ignore the 'minus' sign.

Returning to the discussion, perform the same set of sum and difference calculations using the third harmonic of the first input frequency (300Hz) First the sums:

300 + 250 = 550
300 + 750 = 1050
300 + 1250 = 1550
etc.

then the differences:

300 - 250 = 50
300 - 750 = -450
300 - 1250 = -950
etc.

Now do it again for the fifth harmonic, and then the seventh, then the ninth, etc. Cumbersome? Yep, but that's what Ring Modulation is doing to the square wave inputs.

There's one more thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, and that's the amplitude (level) of the harmonics. Simply put, the levels of the sum and difference frequencies will reflect the amplitude of the harmonics used in the calculations. In other words, high harmonic levels will yield high levels of sum and difference frequencies, while low harmonic levels will yield low levels of sum and difference frequencies.

Fortunately for us, we don't need to worry about the calculations; the only thing that's important is the sound. Ring Modulation gives us the capability to create sounds that are non-harmonically related - a sonic realm occupied by the likes of cymbals, chimes, gongs, bells and other 'metallic' instruments.

Ring Modulation is an extremely valuable tool in the synthesist's arsenal, IMO, and I'm pleased that Roland included it as part of the V-Synth's architecture.

- G
- gear junkie since 1980 -

Re: Modulation Exploration

27 Nov 2006, 23:39
WOW! Great information gregae, thanks for taking the time to reply. If you don't mind me asking, where did you learn about that?





filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 01:20
filosofem, it all comes from the formula I gave you above ;-)

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 02:39
...and so, if I want to obtain more information about, say, FM, ENV RING and what not, where can I look? Is there a book or website that has this sort of indepth information that you and gregae have passed on? It's fascinating reading the theory behind just how synthesizers work.





filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 06:40
You can search the Wikipedia site and also read the Synth Secrets articles in the Sound On Sound magazine.

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 07:49
>

I am a long-time student of EM, and I 'cut my teeth' on old analog gear. I suppose it doesn't hurt that I also have an EE degree. ;-)

For more info, check out "Power Tools for Synthesizer Programming" by Jim Aiken. It's a excellent resource that should answer most of your synth questions.

Glad I could help!

Greg

- gear junkie since 1980 -
- gear junkie since 1980 -

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 21:16
Thanks Artemio, I forgot about the SOS mag.
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

28 Nov 2006, 21:23
"Power Tools for Synthesizer Programming" by Jim Aiken.

Thanks gregae, yeah read that twice, I was hoping for something a little more academic, although a good read, it still only covers the basics and doesn't really delve into specifics, like the contents of this thread. ;-)




filosofem
Aaron Mulqueen

Re: Modulation Exploration

29 Nov 2006, 04:24
filosofem:

You just need to remember one thing - what's great on paper, in formulas, will not necessarily sound great ;-) So there is a good balance between theory and practice that you need to find.

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