GROUP PLAY ignores CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS of patterns

8 Jul 2022, 06:30

Hi guys, I have a question about pattern loop settings, I'm a bit cofused.

I created a 4-measure-long pattern (pattern A), that is a loop, and made another one, a 1 measure fill pattern (pattern B). I set CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS on both patterns to MEASURE. I'm sure you can see what's going on here. 🙂

When I'm setting PAD MODE to VARIATION PLAY, this works as expected: pattern A is being played, and when I tap PAD 5 (or row B on the pattern screen) during measure 3, the next measure to be played will be pattern B, transforming the 4th measure to a fill. This also works clicking on patterns on the pattern screen, or PAD MODE set to PATTERN.

BUT: I created a GROUP 01 containing PATTERN A, and a GROUP 02 containing PATTERN B. I tried the above process in GROUP PLAY PATTERN MODE, starting with GROUP 01. And when I tap GROUP 02 during measure 3, it completely ignores the CHANGE TIMING setting, plays the whole 4 measures of GROUP 01, then goes to GROUP 02. (In system settings it is also set to MEASURE.)

Am I missing something, or is it a bug/not implemented feature in variation play to consider CHANGE TIMING settings?

Thanks for your help in advance!

Re: GROUP PLAY ignores CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS of patterns

8 Jul 2022, 09:23

😃😃😃😃

Haven't use this feature much, but I have experienced the fact of different behaviours I didn't expect at all until I realised it all was dependant on where you are: patterns, groups, song, pad modes, scene screen, mixer.

Variation play was announced as having the chance to start a new pattern from the next upcoming measure, without having to previously reach the end of the pattern being played, just finishing the current measure, see page 8, FANTOM Version 1.50 Supplementary Manual, where is said that "Playing a Pattern’s Variations (Variation Play):
You can press pads to directly play each variation from the next measure location".

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/fantom_8/owners_manuals/9cfeeb10-84f0-477e-a6d3-8e3166a1c732/

Playing a Group is quite another different thing, or so I understand it, as a Group is meant to build a song, and therefore have inherent instructions to thoroughly play and finish before giving way to the next Group, if any, or loop itself as many times as ordered in the song, and cannot be modified whatsoever by something that is meant to follow and haven't even started yet.

On the contrary, under Variation play you are allowed to go asking a stack of patterns (which do not actually make a formal Group) to end right away without waiting to reach and finish the last measure located at the end of the pattern by simply starting you yourself manually another pattern or stack of patterns, the software managing the magic of the transition by just making good the measure already being carried on and then starting the new stack of patterns while avoiding and leaving behind those measures not yet played in the preceding.

So patterns, alone or played together as a stack is a thing, and selecting patterns to make a Group is another, each behaving differently.

Pattern>
Stack of patterns>
Group>
Groups of patterns> Song.

This seems to match what was announced for Group play, see page 14, FANTOM Version 2.00 Supplementary Manual:

"You can press the pad corresponding to a group you’ve already created to make it play back or stop.
The group plays back using the “Group Length” cycle you set when the group was created."

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_product/fantom_8/owners_manuals/8c417e52-b740-4d21-9acc-ccc5a110d1b3/

🎹🎹🎹🎹

Re: GROUP PLAY ignores CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS of patterns

17 Jul 2022, 11:25

Nice, thank you for your comprehensive answer! Your reasoning makes sense about the different usage of Group and Variation play. I have to confess, that I'm a Fantom-0 owner, and looking back to the version updates of the big Fantom and when the different functions were introduced explains why they work in different ways. Fantom-0 users got the whole functionality of the big Fantom software as a single starting package, and I didn't get it why Group and Variation play would work differently.

Thanks again! :)

Re: GROUP PLAY ignores CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS of patterns

17 Jul 2022, 12:04

😃😃😃😃

Re: GROUP PLAY ignores CHANGE TIMING in LOOP SETTINGS of patterns

6 Sep 2025, 17:47

I understand the difference of Patterns, Variations, Groups and Songs. The structure itself is good. But i playing also live and wish to have more options to leave the predefined path. That groups will be played until their end when used in a song is ok, but when i want to jump to another group by pressing a PAD in Group Play mode - why it is not possible yet? I can do this only with Variations, but Variations are only patterns of one Line.
And the same Problem with a song: what if i want to jump to another step of the song while it's playing ? I just could touch another group of the predefined order on the screen. This both functions would improve the live playing incredibly !!