Fantom Platform

Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 02:36
ChrisDuncan wrote:
I wonder if there is an upward limit on how many times Roland can repackage and sell the Jupiter 8, et al.
Now I'm off topic, but we are off topic anyway :-)

I think there are both advantages and disadvantages with this. Reuse of software/hardware potentially gives us products that are better tested and matured. And better compability across Rolands product line. I also think Roland have done a great job in how they have implemented the products in Fantom, with one big exception: I am pretty convinced that the circuitry of the pad-part comes from a different Roland product and was added to the Fantom at a late stage in the product development. It just doesn't make sense that it is impossible to transfer samples between the pad memory and keyboard memory, it's not possible to export samples from the pad-memory to the internal memory, it is not possible to sample from the pads (only from the inputs and the keys). And add to that that you have to move the USB stick to a different port during a firmware update. However, it is not the end of the world and I can live with that :-)

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 03:44
Raise your hand if you don't have the same song on wax cylinder, gramophone record (78 RPM),
vinyl LP, vinyl EP, vinyl single, open reel tape, cassette tape, 8-track cartridge, MiniDisc, CD,
CD-R, CD-RW, Super Audio CD (SACD), DVD-Audio, Blu-ray Audio, USB drive, SD card, SSD, digital
files (MP3, FLAC, AAC, etc.), or on streaming services (Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, etc.).

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 03:55
FGM wrote:
Raise your hand if you don't have the same song on wax cylinder, gramophone record (78 RPM),
vinyl LP, vinyl EP, vinyl single, open reel tape, cassette tape, 8-track cartridge, MiniDisc, CD,
CD-R, CD-RW, Super Audio CD (SACD), DVD-Audio, Blu-ray Audio, USB drive, SD card, SSD, digital
files (MP3, FLAC, AAC, etc.), or on streaming services (Spotify, Apple Music, Tidal, etc.).

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹
You forgot dictation mini cassette tape, DAT and DCC. Not to forget the LaserDisc :-D

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 12:18
Deep knowledge to the ultimate detail is exactly what
I need as I go asking for a replacement to my beloved
aging Mythos ST...

Buchardt A700 ot Golden Ear T66?

Thank you.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 12:48
FGM wrote:
ChrisDuncan, I appreciate the compliment!

Actually, I am a retired major airline captain, and this project is fulfilling a dream I planted when I was a teenager.
Great way to get your geek on and enjoy music at the same time.

There's a YouTube channel I enjoy called Scott's Synth Stuff. He was a commercial pilot as well (and I spent five years writing air traffic control software). Not surprising that people in aviation would embrace technology in other areas of their lives.

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 12:58
osflaa wrote:
I think there are both advantages and disadvantages with this. Reuse of software/hardware potentially gives us products that are better tested and matured. And better compability across Rolands product line. I also think Roland have done a great job in how they have implemented the products in Fantom
I'm actually happy that Roland provides modern versions of these classic synths, as I have no desire to maintain vintage analog gear. It just seems like they spend most of their time figuring out how to re-sell the wheel instead of trying to reinvent it, so I wonder what they could accomplish if they didn't devote so much R&D time that.
osflaa wrote:
I am pretty convinced that the circuitry of the pad-part comes from a different Roland product and was added to the Fantom at a late stage in the product development. It just doesn't make sense that it is impossible to transfer samples between the pad memory and keyboard memory, it's not possible to export samples from the pad-memory to the internal memory, it is not possible to sample from the pads (only from the inputs and the keys). And add to that that you have to move the USB stick to a different port during a firmware update. However, it is not the end of the world and I can live with that :-)
It's not uncommon in the tech world to come up with a great new idea that would require rewriting a lot of the architecture to implement properly. So, we often end up just figuring out a way to bolt it on and live with the limitations.

A lot of the stuff in the Fantom is brilliant. In other areas, you wonder if these guys ever even went to engineering / software school. The installation process for the EX update was the most clumsy, convoluted thing I've ever seen. And I've been programming on Microsoft tech for three decades, so that's saying something.

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 13:16
FGM wrote:
Deep knowledge to the ultimate detail is exactly what
I need as I go asking for a replacement to my beloved
aging Mythos ST...

Buchardt A700 ot Golden Ear T66?

Thank you.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹
Your Mythos are very high end home entertainment speakers, and I'm sure they sound awesome. However, given how you're embracing Reaper and the world of DAW music production, I would highly recommend that instead of looking at more home entertainment products that you instead check out some quality studio reference monitors. Home entertainment systems are optimized for listening pleasure, so they often enhance / deemphasize certain frequencies. Studio monitors are there to tell you the truth.

This becomes important when you start sharing your music with people who listen in environments other than your own. Or for when you listen in the car, on your phone, etc. If your speakers don't tell you the truth, you'll make mix decisions based on what you hear that won't translate to other listening environments. For example, if your system enhances the bass because that feels good when listening to the record, you'll reduce the bass in your mix so that it sounds good in the room. Then a friend who doesn't have high end entertainment speakers plays it on their system and wonders why they can't hear the bass. Just an example, of course, but should serve to illustrate the issue.

Once upon a time, studio reference monitors sounded like absolute crap. The Yamaha NS-10s were a gotta have standard in every professional recording studio in the world. They sounded very, very bad, because they were trying to help you mix so that it would still sound good on a cheap AM radio, or $20 boom box. I had NS-10s, and they weren't fun to work with.

Fast forward to modern times, and there is a wealth of companies who make studio reference monitors that a) tell you the truth and b) sound absolutely fantastic. I sold my NS-10s in the 90s and replaced them with Mackie HDRs. They told me the truth, allowed me to keep my mixes portable (i.e. they sound good in all environments), but they were actually enjoyable to listen to.

I still have them, but in the decades since there are many other companies, at many different price points, who offer modern reference monitors with these characteristics - a truthful sound so that you can make accurate mix decisions, but also enjoyable to listen to. Prices range from a few hundred bucks to thousands, so there's something for everyone. Check out brands like Adam, Barefoot, Focal and Genelec for the higher quality monitors. Since you have the Mythos, you should be able to find something in each of these brands for a comparable price. If at all possible, go to a local retailer so you can hear the difference, or at least buy from an online store with a no questions asked return policy.

Also, modern reference monitors tend to be active (self powered), so you would connect them to the output of your audio interface and be done with it. This is also an advantage for mixing. If you're running your audio from Reaper into your home stereo system which then goes to the Mythos, then your stereo system would be another link in the chain that could color your sound and not give you a truthful representation of your mix.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not disrespecting the Mythos or any of the home entertainment oriented gear. But you're becoming a serious studio geek now, and there's a reason people buy studio reference monitors.

Hope this helps!

Re: Is there any difference between EX upgrade and the new EX keyboard?

20 Jul 2024, 13:49
Thank you...

Hedd, Genelec, Adam...I paid many visits to them.

But placing a floor-stander is so easy...

😀😀😀😀
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