Can a knob be programmed to control 9th drawbar?

anotherscott2022 wrote:

When using the VTW engine, is there a way to program the knob above the 8th slider to function as a control for the 9th drawbar?

I'm afraid not, as the functions available for the knobs do not include the VTW drawbars.

I believe you can only do that via MIDI (from an external controller).

Follows some info taken from the MIDI implementation manual on how to control the drawbars

Yeah, I had seen that the controls are SysEx, which complicates things a bit...

anotherscott2022 wrote:

Yeah, I had seen that the controls are SysEx, which complicates things a bit...

Yes it does, but you can always use the Touch display to adjust the 1" drawbar...

According to the post at https://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?p=338104#p338104 0 the "full" fantom drawbars send and respond to CC #70-78, it would be surprising if the Fantom-0 didn't so the same, this is something I want to check into when I get a chance. If they do respond to those CCs, maybe there could be some other way to approach this...

anotherscott2022 wrote:

According to the post at https://forums.rolandclan.com/viewtopic.php?p=338104#p338104 0 the "full" fantom drawbars send and respond to CC #70-78, it would be surprising if the Fantom-0 didn't so the same, this is something I want to check into when I get a chance. If they do respond to those CCs, maybe there could be some other way to approach this...

Well... I've just tested with my Korg NanoKontrol2 and VOILÁ, it works!
Let me explain what I did.

- Configured the nanoKontrol2 Sliders to respond to MIDI CC #71-78 on MIDI channel 2 (left #70 off, that can be controlled by the Fantom itself - Zone 1 Slider).
- Then I used it connected externally via MIDI, as any other external controller, and mapped my MIDI Router (iConnectivity mioXM) to allow the Fantom-0 to receive MIDI msgs from the nanoKontrol2.
- Also tested to connect the nanoKontrol2 directly to the Fantom-0's EXT USB device port, and also worked like a charm

In summary, any external controller configured to send MIDI CC #78 on MIDI channel 2 to the Fantom, will do the trick

I hope this helps
Cheers,
PauloF

In a nutshell, if I understand you well...🤪🤪🤪🤪

We want a knob or slider in Fantom to perform a task.

But that task is not included among those the knob or slider can perform, since it is not listed in the window that is triggered when we press shift and move the intended control.

So we assign it a CC among those effectively being listed.

Then we connect an external MIDI controller, either via MIDI IN/OUT or USB, and configure it to send a signal when it receives another signal.

The received signal in the external MIDI controller is a CC that was available for that control in Fantom and the sent signal by this MIDI external controller is the one that was not available but that is finally accomplished once it is received by Fantom from the external device ...HOW FUNNY !!!!

Well, it is about as saying Fantom does not fly, but if I connect a little string to it and a kite to the other end...

😀😀😀😀

Well, it is possible to assign CC #78 to Knob 8 on the Fantom-0 itself. Can this somehow be routed to the internal sound engine? If nothing else, what about the brute force method, of running a MIDI cable from MIDI Out to MIDI In? Though it may take some other effort to be sure that things you do NOT want coming back in to the Fantom are kept out. If need be, possibly a MIDI Solutions box or a smartphone could filter the MIDI signal so that all that gets through is the one control. (The idea here isn't just wanting a hard control for the 9th drawbar, but for it to be as convenient to get to as possible when manipulating the 8 other slider/drawbar controls, and I figure that knob is about as close as we could possibly get.)

anotherscott2022 wrote:

Well, it is possible to assign CC #78 to Knob 8 on the Fantom-0 itself. Can this somehow be routed to the internal sound engine? If nothing else, what about the brute force method, of running a MIDI cable from MIDI Out to MIDI In? Though it may take some other effort to be sure that things you do NOT want coming back in to the Fantom are kept out. If need be, possibly a MIDI Solutions box or a smartphone could filter the MIDI signal so that all that gets through is the one control. (The idea here isn't just wanting a hard control for the 9th drawbar, but for it to be as convenient to get to as possible when manipulating the 8 other slider/drawbar controls, and I figure that knob is about as close as we could possibly get.)

Honestly... I don't see what's the problem of using the display to adjust the Organ 1" drawbar, unless one keeps messing with the drawbars all the time while paying... in that case, I agree that the 1" slider is needed, and in that case, an inexpensive Korg nanoKontrol2 (or a nanoKontrol Studio or similar) can do the trick and give much more control options, as it has 8xgroups of 1xKnobs, 3xButtons and 1xSliders fully CC configurable.

PauloF wrote:

Honestly... I don't see what's the problem of using the display to adjust the Organ 1" drawbar, unless one keeps messing with the drawbars all the time while paying... in that case, I agree that the 1" slider is needed, and in that case, an inexpensive Korg nanoKontrol2 (or a nanoKontrol Studio or similar) can do the trick

The problem with that is that there's no place on the Fantom-0 where you can fit a Nanokontrol. At least not on the 6 and 7, which are the ones with organ-friendly actions. (I don't know about the 8.)

anotherscott2022 wrote:

When using the VTW engine, is there a way to program the knob above the 8th slider to function as a control for the 9th drawbar?

I was looking at getting a Fantom 08, but did not realise or even consider that Roland would leave out the 9th Drawbar, and only noticed when it was pointed out to me by a guy who was thinking about purchasing one also. I don't know who at Roland is making these decisions to release products in a defective state or leave out OBVIOUS inclusions, I mean they brag it comes with the 'Virtual ToneWheel Organ' and leave out one of the controls!

HOWEVER

Why can't you just use another expression pedal for the missing 9th Drawbar, since Roland and others suggest using one for the Fantom 8's non-existentant aftertouch? (yes Fantom 8 I am referring to not the Fantom 08)

You could get one of those triple pedals and add all the missing functions Expression, Aftertouch and the 9th Drawbar all in one go!

OR

Since an expression pedal is basically a pot (potentiometer), why can you ad a single pot to the expression pedal INPUT on the rear via a standard TRS plug (as used by the expression pedals) and sticky tape it next to the other 8 on the front? Just assign it to MIDI Controller number 78 or whatever it is.

Hey look at at that the FIRST FANTOM 0 custom MOD!

I suppose assigning the function through a pedal input would work, if you have a pedal input to spare.

Synth Robot wrote:

You could get one of those triple pedals and add all the missing functions Expression, Aftertouch and the 9th Drawbar all in one go!

I don't think the triple pedal supports continuous (as opposed to on/off) functions for all 3 pedals does it?

But regardless, the Fantom-0 only supports 3 pedals total. If you want the typical sustain and expression pedal functions enabled, you have only one function left. Though you could conceivably add more via the MIDI input. (For example, via a Behringer FCB-1010.)

anotherscott2022 wrote:

...
But regardless, the Fantom-0 only supports 3 pedals total. If you want the typical sustain and expression pedal functions enabled, you have only one function left. Though you could conceivably add more via the MIDI input. (For example, via a Behringer FCB-1010.)

Exactly!

For example, I'm using a Nektar Pacer Pedalboard for controlling several functions, like: Integra7 StudioSet select, Fantom-0 Scene Select, Fantom-0 VTW Rotary, Nord Electro 6 Rotary, Fantom-0 Hold, Wavestate Hold.

Keyboardists and the never ending need for some more pedals...😀😀😀😀

https://youtu.be/GWggDMDhwIA


🎹🎹🎹🎹

[attachment: Vangelis some 20 pedals.jpg]
I knew nothing about that huge Behringer FCB1010...
Astounding, still staring at it.
I guess I could use one spare switch on it to ask for a bocata de calamares and surely another spare one when preferring to tackle a little handle of Cabrales and Pedro Ximénez.

🔔🔔🔔🔔

Ohhhh, no, no no.
I changed my mind.
🙄🙄🙄🙄
No room service calling, no.
I need them to manage Fantom deeply.
🤔🤔🤔🤔
I am ordering one for my right hand foot and another one for the left one.
Four pedals and twenty four switches, only twenty being assignable, but guess I am done, as I see it thankfully has provisions for ten banks !!!! that are fully user-editable, so we end up having four pedals and two hundred assignable switches plus the four fixed for the up/down walking the banks.
More pedals than MIDI notes. More pedals than keys.
No need to call Roland asking for the missed S4...

CME wireless MIDI surely helping with the connections.

🤪🤪🤪🤪
And now we need a remote screen to know the bank we are on...on each.
Yes, it seems to me it was designed for guitar players.
I will keep then the RPU-3, the DP-10 and use the new ones as hand controllers.
🤪🤪🤪🤪


😀😀😀😀

The worst thing about the FCB-1010 is that it weighs almost 10 lbs. Heck, the Fantom-06 only weighs about 13, it's like bringing along a whole separate keyboard!

But it is one of the few ways you can get additional expression (continuous) pedals.

The piece has been around for a long time. Along with things like the Rocktron MIDI Mate and Rolls MP128, it was handy for patch changes, especially on many boards where you had to scroll (or punch up multiple digits on a keypad) to get from one sound to another. You could program banks of 10 favorite sounds, and navigate directly from one sound to any other with a single foot press. (Much more useful for many people than footswitches that only increment/decrement). But the FCB-1010 is more versatile than those others, because you can set those foot switches for all kinds of things.

I do wish the Fantom-0 had more foot controller inputs. I'd like to have sustain, expression, rotary toggle, and rhythm start/stop, and I'm one short. And that doesn't even count the ones you might want, to make up for the lack of aftertouch and ninth drawbar control. ;-)