Fantom Platform

Request for 2.x Update

Request for 2.x Update

23 Sep 2020, 16:08
Roland‘s new Fantom is a masterpiece of hardware and the sound of Zencore is outstanding.

It seems that Roland has a long-term strategy to tie their customers and an ear to them.

The 2.0 update was a big one but really it only gave us what we already have had and there are still a lot of things missing. And some features are implemented old fashioned or half baken. The Fantom is the flagship and should be at least on par with the feature set of his predecessors and it should be state-of-the-art.

There is fresh and modern approach of a sequencer. There are still missing editing options but for now with the automation and the microeditor it is usable for the first time. Some will miss the linear timeline and GM/GS compatibility but I think it is good leave this past behind.

I don‘t understand why they implemented the rhythm groups and the rhythm pattern player. Why they gave us user rhythm groups to organise a few preset rhythm pattern. It makes more sense if the user can define its own rhythm pattern like the FA-series can do. But the TR-Rec mode and the easy to use sequencer should be enough.

The arpeggiator is nearly the same of the FA-series but as with the missing user rhythm pattern, the user arpeggios are also missing. That is very annoying. An arpeggio follows the keys you press, a sequencer pattern not.

And why didn‘t get the flagship the iArps of the Jupiter Series?

Where are the audio tracks or at least the possibility to playback in sync a simple backing track. For sure the daw integration is superb but the flagship workstation should do this with ease without the need of external gear. As a workaround it is possible to record pad keys triggering samples but it is so clumsy and fiddly.
And it is only possible to trigger 4 stereo samples from the pads at the same time. This is not state-of-the-art!!!!

Roland advertised the Fantom as modeless and 512 User scenes have to share 64 global samples for the pads. This doesn’t make sense. The FA-series already have 64 user samples for each performance.

The sampler just got a big upgrade but there are still a lot of important things missing. At least: zero-point-finder, fade in, fade out and just to stand out there should something special.

A lot of features are implemented with love to the detail but... why I always manually have to set capitalisation on and off. And why I always have to set the quantisation if I record something.......

The beautiful motion controller is nearly useless but could be a killer feature if the user could define the controller scenewise and if they were recorded within the sequencer.

But said there is more to come :)

What do you think?
plex

Re: Request for 2.x Update

24 Sep 2020, 04:09
I think that I'll sell it as soon as Zenology Pro arrives.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

25 Sep 2020, 05:03
At least the sequencer should be able to import simple standard midi files. Can't believe it is still not possible! Without the limit of 32 bars, cropped in 1 pattern, I mean. Just some conversion tool to get .mid into the Fantom in order to use and edit it. Would be nice for former Fantom G users to reuse their hundreds of files created with that amazing board. I purchased the new Fantom to replace the G, not to miss it...

Re: Request for 2.x Update

25 Sep 2020, 08:51
That is good idea. In addition to the announced sample font converter a midi file splitter / converter.
plex

Re: Request for 2.x Update

26 Sep 2020, 09:15
I'm using Fantom for live performance. For most of the songs a midi track runs along on my Fantom. It would really help me to be able to play midi from a scene specific .mid file. Not thru the pattern sequencer. Rock and Pop very often are not suitable for pattern sequencing. I don't need editing or any fancy stuff. Just an option to play a midi from a scene.

At the moment I need to prepare my midi's in Cubase, chop them up into 32bar pieces, import everything in Fantom and glue everyting together again. A major hustle for something very basic. A few of the songs we play have tracks with note on events that are shortly in front of the next bar. In these cases it's undoable to get it to work in pattern sequencing. So for now, I need to get my iPad along to play the midi's.

Roland, please Help!

Just to be clear; Beside the above shortcoming it's a great machine. Really love it.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

27 Sep 2020, 16:31
Roland intentionally left out [ Multi-sampling to keyboard ] function where you can create multi-samples from live sampling without having to save the sample first. Fantom only allow singular sample to the keyboard.

They allow you to sample one sound only to a zone. But you cannot sample multiple samples to a zone to play different samples on different keys on the keyboard.

So in reality, the Fantom doesn't multi-sample, which is a bummer.

But you can import from a file to create multi-sample programs.

Roland left out sample chop, skip back sampling. etc

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 10:44
I think the implementation of multisamples is deep. You can use up to four multisamples or single samples to stack or velocity switch them or do stuff no other sampler can do.

But there are a lot of omissions when it comes to editing. I‘m pretty sure Roland will give us some editing features with one of the next updates. Fade in/out, Zero-Point-Finder, Chop, Extract, ...

But I fear that they don‘t give us time stretching and pitch shifting, BMP detection.
plex

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 11:38
If my memory does not deceive me, up to 4 stereo or up to 8 monophonic samples can be used simultaneously.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 13:05
The 2.0 version is a great update but I really miss the ability to make a complete song, so more than 32 bars. That means that I am now forced to play songs with logic pro x and mainstage.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 13:20
@FGM: 4 Stereo Samples could be played at the same time by the Pads which are independent from the Zencore Engine. With Zencore each played sample act as an internal wave, so there is a much higher polyphonie.
plex

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 13:28
@Robin1965a: Did you try to group pattern and chain them to a song. It‘s not so bad.

Maybe Roland will allow us to choose a linear mode with more bars and without groups and song or an ableton-like mode.
plex

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 14:22
Robin1965a wrote:
The 2.0 version is a great update but I really miss the ability to make a complete song, so more than 32 bars. That means that I am now forced to play songs with logic pro x and mainstage.

I think I understand you if you are meaning the inability to play and play, and play, and then stop after half an hour... and see your playing was not recorded as long as you did.

But if you just want to make a song, and any song is regardless of how long or complex a series of connected basic sounding notes, which in Fantom are recorded within 32 measures for up to 16 or perhaps 32 zones [Ver 2.00 allows an ADVANCE mode, that will use up to 16 zones INT and 16 zones EXT simultaneously,to 16, 256 in total, but I have no external device to try so far ] along 8 patterns [ A to H, 1 ]

Then, you mix those patterns, any of them, making up to 16 groups, with lengths from 1 to 32 measures and use this groups to make a song with up to 32 of them that can be repeated individually up to 32 times, and then make a loop between two of them...I am telling all that because it seems to me you don't know how it is done.

The problem, for me, comes from two issues: tempo and number of zones.

Tempo: 32 bars at 4/4 and tempo 300 last 25.6 seconds...only.
And when I have so many voices that the song requests many scenes,
a performance is to be stretched along them, making a discontinuity that is not resolved by a continuous play afterwards...No chained playback of songs so far.
Last edited by FGM on 29 Sep 2020, 04:21, edited 7 times in total.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

28 Sep 2020, 14:23
Perplextor wrote:
@FGM: 4 Stereo Samples could be played at the same time by the Pads which are independent from the Zencore Engine. With Zencore each played sample act as an internal wave, so there is a much higher polyphonie.

Thank you. I was referring to the pads... used as sample pads.

Re: Request for 2.x Update

29 Sep 2020, 13:26
Perplextor wrote:
The sampler just got a big upgrade but there are still a lot of important things missing. At least: zero-point-finder, fade in, fade out and just to stand out there should something special.
Yes!

I hope, that they continue to fine tune the sampling capabilities. I also wish, that Zero point, fade in/out, round robin and visual representation of play head would arrive soon. I would also like to have higher sample frequency option.

But most of all, I was also thinking, that they should do something special. In addition to a really nifty sequencer that Fantom has, a special trick or two would have great effect in bringing more happy customers to this platform.

What I think the Fantom could really use would be Variphrase technology. In my view it is Rolands greatest achievement in decades, and I cannot understand why Roland is letting that R&D effort slip through its fingers. I know, that back then it was expensive in more than one way, but looking at how much processing power Fantom has, V-Synth’s capabilities would be a perfect speciality for Fantom, expanding its synthesis power by light years and fixing its biggest shortcoming, time stretchin/pitch shifting, in one fell swoop.

Roland, please, give it the V!

Re: Request for 2.x Update

29 Sep 2020, 15:11
Yes, the Fantom will never be a MPC but with editing options on par and the V it would be a killer like the evolving Zencore universe.
plex

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