J80 Price - Ouch!

Atlas5 wrote:

CRAP, I thought that word was reserved for my music, i.e. "Country Rap".

All I can say is when a person uses the word crap to describe music equipment, (ie sound) they lose all credibility. As I believe all equipment is viable in the right application. And low and behold, crap, it's self, make no sound, except an associated grunt, so how can something sound like crap. Crap is something that comes out of the body, the mouth in this case.

Jupiter 80 is a little expensive, even if if can't sound crappy. This is a whole new level of pricing for me, I am going to have to figure out new methods of begging from the wife, I may have to make her feel guilty or something.

This is ridiculous..LOL!

It seems that I have unintentionally offended a few members, who feel my language is some how inappropriate for this forum. I have read many forums where people use much stronger language and do not receive close to this kind of reprimand. I honestly do not think anyone will take you guys seriously (those making a big deal out of the word crap). And I can only conclude that this shameful attempt to discredit my opinion, based of the silly reason that I used the word “crap“, is nothing more than a debating technique that is being deployed due to hidden agendas in support of korg…

I can see no other reason for such absurd claims!…Because I said crap?!...You can not be serious!

I agree that all gear has it’s applications, I never suggested otherwise, for me, the Kronos provided valuable information, it has been a very useful tool, aiding me in my research and has help me conclude that the JUPITER-80 is the superior synth sound wise. You may choose to use the Kronos for other applications, that is your affair, but your use of the Kronos does not diminish it’s importance as a useful tool that helps me in my buying decisions nor does it elevate your opinion to a level that is above mine.

Again, I do not believe I will be the only one who feels the Kronos sounds less than acceptable. For now, I am happy with my conclusions, the JUPITER-80 sounds awesome and I look forward to discovering what else it is capable of… so far…it’s well worth the price in my opinion.

PauloF wrote:

Ah..by the way...welcome to the Clan!
;-)

Thank-you PauloF, it’s good to know that some here know how to treat others in a decent way (Artemiy..lol ;-)

piaknowguy wrote:

Hi Amazing One!

I also wanted to take this opportunity to welcome you to the Roland Clan! As you can see, we are all just one big happy family here!!

Oh . . . and don't mind Artemiy! He DOES a little too much once in a while! ;-)

Thank-you piaknowguy! I have enjoyed your web page and all the support you provide here!

Yeah, I guess I can let Artemiy slide this time…LOL!!!

Amazing One,
I don't have any personal problem with the word "crap" nor do I feel offended in any way because you call the Kronos as being crappy soundwise.
I will not buy the Kronos and I will not buy the J80.
The problem is that you use a word which means an extreme position.
Crap doesn't mean slightly worse. It means as bad as it gets.
If you say "Song A is good and song B is crap" it doesn't mean that the song A is slightly better than the song B. It simply means that song B is completely unacceptable.
I wont post youtube examples here again. You can find even a 37 second clip from the J80 piano. If you really think that the Kronos piano sounds like crap compared to the J80 piano, then either you or I have a serious ear problem, or you use the word in a wrong context.

Nothing more to ad to this.
Let me just copy the meaning for the word crap out from my dictionary (on my Mac):

crap 1 |krap| vulgar slang
noun
1 something that is of extremely poor quality.
• nonsense.
• rubbish; junk.
2 excrement.
• [in sing. ] an act of defecation.

You're entitled to your opinion, but in no way is the Kronos piano of extremely poor quality or nonsens, rubbish or junk. Period.

Moj, I guess Amazing One's dictionary app is crap! :-)

LOL.

Way to derail a perfectly legitimate thread about Jupiter-80 price with claims of KORG crappiness.

What AmazingOne didn't realize is that this actually was KORG clan just a few months ago.

I'll just add, I also feel that, without a sequencer/workstation capabilities, this board is $500-1000 overpriced as well.

It may sound fresh today, but give it 6 months and we'll be able to pick out the Jupiter in a mix and on to the next all over again.

Hi mojkarma!

Wow, again with the crap thing huh?…lol!

However, you are incorrect concerning your definition in relation to how I defined crap in this case.

You missed a few definitions..

1. Excrement.
2. An act of defecating.
3. Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
4. Cheap or shoddy material.
5. Miscellaneous or disorganized items; clutter.
6. Insolent talk or behavior.
intr.v. crapped, crap·ping, craps
To defecate.
interj.
Used to express anger or displeasure.Phrasal Verb:
crap up
To make a mess of; bungle.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/crap

You are making much to big a deal out of my use of the word crap and exaggerating my intended use of the word so that you can fulfill whatever objective you may have.

Lighten up a bit mojkarma, I wish all the best for those who buy the Kronos, at this time, it’s just not for me.

Using the words from the definition above, I feel that the Kronos piano sounds are disorganized and use cheap or shoddy sonic material, very displeasing indeed.

As I said…

Amazing One wrote:

Crap is merely a colorful word I am using…My use of the word crap is defined by my understanding of what constitutes crap. Understand that we do not share the same definition concerning that which constitutes crap.

Again, I am happy with my conclusions and very happy with what I have heard from the JUPITER-80.

Also…

We are only speculating concerning the price anyway, no one knows what Roland has put into the JUPITER-80, The V-Piano is expensive too, and it does not have half the features of a Fantom-G or other synths. But it does have new expensive technology that makes it sound amazing! The JUPITER-80 sounds amazing, the equipment required to make it sound the way it does may cost more than what has been used is current workstations and synths…

And if that is the case, then I feel the price is justifiable.

But it does have new expensive technology that makes it sound amazing!

I stopped reading at defecate, so you'll have to elaborate on that. What exactly is new, expensive and/or amazing about the technology?

I don't remember the prices people have suggested off hand, but keep in mind Fantom G8 and Motif XF8 are generally $3500 and $4000 MSRP. In this class, anywhere near $4000 will put the Jupiter 80 well over the top with only 76 keys.

I don't think the comparison to the V-Piano makes much sense, just as comparing it to an Omega 8 would be silly.

Although, that could be the point. At the end of the day, it's it's own thing, and given a niche market Roland can charge whatever they want.

Hugh,
now that you have identified the piano material on the Kronos as cheap and disorganized (of course, that's just your opinion and feel), I'm anxiously waiting how you will judge the synth weighted keyboard on the J80 in relation and connection to the playability of the J80 piano!
:))))))

Hi bijoux!

You were the one who said….

dbijoux wrote:

I'll just add, I also feel that, without a sequencer/workstation capabilities, this board is $500-1000 overpriced as well.

Therefore, I pointed out that Roland makes gear (such as the V-Piano) that does not have the things you included in your quote above, and due to the equipment required to make that gear sound as it does, the price is greater than gear with more features but lacking the equipment that is required to make the V-Piano sound amazing.

Likewise, something in the JUPITER-80 is making it sound amazing, it is not unreasonable to conclude that the equipment required to make the JUPITER-80 sound as it does may be more expensive than what is in other workstations and synths and therefore, even with less features (due to the equipment required to make it sound awesome), it’s price is justifiable considering the equipment it uses.

If so, I am ok with that..

Also, sweetwater has placed the price at $3499.00

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Jupiter80

Not that bad, and I am sure the price will drop as time passes.

Hi mojkarma!

mojkarma wrote:

Hugh,
now that you have identified the piano material on the Kronos as cheap and disorganized (of course, that's just your opinion and feel), I'm anxiously waiting how you will judge the synth weighted keyboard on the J80 in relation and connection to the playability of the J80 piano!
:))))))

I am comfortable with Roland’s 76 key keyboards and how they respond, I play them often. Also, I like Roland’s 76 key count over korg's 73 key count….

But I will let you know for sure when I get a chance to test the JUPITER-80. But I am guessing that it feels much like the Fantom-G7,X7,XP-80 etc.

Haha, having a laugh at this thread, I do believe anyone who thinks the kronos sounds bad either needs new speakers or ears, by the sound of it Artemiy thinks it's a pretty good machine? Maybe he's thinking about producing some sound sets for it when it arrives... Now that would be great and can also see it being more profitable than just sticking with Roland? How about it Artemiy?

Look it's maybe the best virtual analog (sample based or not) synth I've heard. But for $3500 US if it can't load user samples, then it seems not a good value. Put it in a rack with a touchscreen (I guess that'd have to be a 3 spacer) for $1995 and I'll be much more interested. And make it look like a built-in VST to my DAW. Otherwise I'm looking at Halion4 and a high-end Mac to run it on.

theshinenz wrote:

Haha, having a laugh at this thread, I do believe anyone who thinks the kronos sounds bad either needs new speakers or ears, by the sound of it Artemiy thinks it's a pretty good machine?

I haven't heard a single Kronos demo really, but I have had experience with their iMS-20 app, and since Kronos includes that very same synth, I can at least judge about the sound and user interface of that one. And I like it very, very much.

Maybe he's thinking about producing some sound sets for it when it arrives... Now that would be great and can also see it being more profitable than just sticking with Roland? How about it Artemiy?

No, I do not plan any sound libraries for the future (maybe only occasionally, if inspiration hits hard). The profit vs. effort for sound libraries is much lower than with producing software. Making your own synths and effects is also way more fun!

theshinenz wrote:

Haha, having a laugh at this thread, I do believe anyone who thinks the kronos sounds bad either needs new speakers or ears

Both my speakers and ears are excellent….

And it would make no difference. By it’s self the kronos sounds just fine, just as good as many software synths, it sounds basic, average…good. But so long as the JUPITER-80 exist, I will always feel that the kronos is lacking sound wise..

I think the JUPITER-80 makes kronos sound…insignificant. But if I was not comparing the kronos to the JUPITER-80, I would think kronos sounds normal (like a good soft synth, but the pianos need work).

Wow, this thread sure went off-track.... any chance the conversation with Amazing One about definition of the word "crap" could be split off into its own thread?

As to the price point: this price point, like the price point of the V-Synth GT, tells me that Roland isn't targeting a mass market with this synth, but a niche market of interest in the particulars of this instrument.

Even the Fantom series is more mass-market in focus than this.

So, they've probably priced it higher because they expect to sell fewer overall. Like V-Synth, and contrary to all the internet railing, this is another experimental, advanced effort on Roland's part to push technological ideas they've been working on for their whole history.

For what it is, and for the market it's targeted at, the price point makes perfect sense. The vast majority of people in online forums and on Youtube, who (like me at this point, actually, as well) can really only afford software or hardware that costs about $500 US or less, will no doubt complain bitterly about the price and rag on the synth for that reason alone.

I just don't think they should have exceeded the $2995 for a synth only piece. Even it the definition of this type synthesis is new. Now if it had the PG-8000 programer to go with the already useful touch screen, then we would have a whole different situation here. We all know where the programer should go.