Fantom-G

Roland Customer Relationship

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

15 Dec 2010, 12:41
'it makes me happy when you are frustrated'??

I can imagine people like you like roland support.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

15 Dec 2010, 14:19
Jabber, Jabber, Jabberwocky,

I said "I believe Roland support is comparable to others" or "about the same". And generally, I am sadistfried.

I want new and innovative products, not web support for people not willing to read manuals or watching youtube for basic instruction. These non-manual reading, confused people, who expect an upgrade to resolve their lack of understanding are ok with me. I rather see us non-Roland people answer these questions and concerns. Besides I feel a little better about myself when I help them out! But that's me, not necessarily everyone.

Man you guy's keep this up and I'll need another rosey screen saver.

I guess my point is: (not directed to anyone who would not be offended.)

Mis-directed frustration solves no problems, if a person needs more Roland support, call them, repeatly until you get resolution! Complain to the dealers. But don't expect any sympathy or agreement from a forum.

PS. I've only had my FG since Oct-08, so I've got another year to figure out that my FG doesn't live up to my expectations, let alone Roland's customer service, so give me a break, . (HA HA)
Fantom G & X7, Motif XS6, M3, V-synth, JP8000, M1, Wavestation, Radias, Nord Lead 2X, Karma, Snow, electribes and other groove boxes.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 07:31
"People tend to bash Roland here because it is an excuse for their poor career choice. (and you don't get much negative reaction bashing Roland on a Korg forum.) Personally I blame Korg, because I have more Korg equipment! HA HA.

Maybe it's because Roland users are a cut above, and expect more. "

Let me focus on the last sentence, it came right into my mind one hour ago, while I was programming a live setup for my gig tomorrow.
For a song I have to play I selected a synth type sound. It's actually a patch on PRST: 1178, called R-Trance.
Its what I exactly need, and the delay you hear adds a nice dimension to the sound.

No, I copied the sound over into my live setup where I need it among other sounds.
On of the benefit from the effect structure on the FG should be that the patch sounds exactly like it does in the Single Mode. Well, more or less, taking into account the small variations coming from the send effects.
I realized that the Delay effect is suddenly missing when I copy the patch into my live setup. I looked at the PFX for that particular patch, and it is shut off. It's a 4 tap delay, but not active. I looked further on the chorus send effect, where some patches use a delay instead of a chorus. It was neither there.
Then I finally found, that the delay effect on the patch R-Trance is coming from the send reverb effect, which is set to a delay sound.

This is what is driving me crazy sometimes with this keyboard. It's where I ask myself, how stupid can a sound designer be, to select the reverb send effect for a delay!
If you copy that patch to a live setup and copy manually (we all know that Roland exclusively megafeature) its reverb send effect (acting as a delay!), all other patches will have delay. There is no possibility to apply a classic reverb/hall sound to the other patches because the reverb send effect is used for a delay.
Instead, the sound programmer could have used the PFX which he deactivated for that patch, and program the delay in the PFX. There he has dozens of different delays, but no, he select the reverb send part of the effect structure and creates the delay there, thus making it impossible to use reverb on other parts of the live setup.
I'm still thinking about it, how dumb one can be, to apply effects in that way.
I had to recreate the delay part on the pfx by myself, waste another user single memory location and spend my time on useless tasks.

The development team at Roland should have a meeting with their sound designers and clarify some principles about how and where to use the effects. I would gave the sounddesigners the instruction not to use the reverb send effect for delays, if the pfx is free or not used.
There are dozens of such patches where the effects are programmed with a extraordinarily high level of stupidity. Sorry, but there are no better words to name it.

So, my point is, we don't expect necessarily more, but we expect at least some fundamental things to be considered before a keyboard is released. My single user memory is vastly occupied by patches where I have to repair the effect structure, created by some high drugged sound designers, who don't think half a step forward, what kind of problems it will create for the users...

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 12:02
I have owned a lot of Roland gear over the past 15 years and never had a problem with support. If I had a question, they would walk me through the solution. I highly recommend Roland. I do also own a Yamaha Motif XS that I use in conjunction with my G8, only for acoustic sounds.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 12:21
try to ask them how to filter hold -1 messages in live/studio mode rx filter page (maybe you can add that it doesn't work when releasing the pedal) ,.. Or.. Why doesn't the fantom save in smf1 mode (extracting phrases if different channels are on the same track)

Enjoy the silence of their customer support

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 12:28
Wew, never had that problem, guess they might not know as much as I thought. I have called them on several pieces from the G1000 arranger, MV 8800, Juno G, and Fantom G, never had a problem but I guess I don't get to deep into the technical side.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 12:35
"I have owned a lot of Roland gear over the past 15 years"

pjblues:
Thats not the kind of support we speak of..

Its the support that should address the issues and flaws that are reported by other users..
specifically design issues which need to be address with a firmware update and cannot be solved by just someone on the phone at roland in 5mins


"I have to repair the effect structure, created by some high drugged sound designers, who don't think half a step forward, what kind of problems it will create for the users..."

mojkarma:
Its been said from roland that they would like to do away with single mode altogether..
this would mean on the next workstation incarnation all patches would have to be designed without Rev chorus/delay or built around a studio or live set..
But then does that just repeat the same problem we have in single mode..?
Because if you start browsing through your studio/live sets and see some nice sounds you would like to reuse somewhere else... you will start to realize that its character is dependent on the rev/delay mfx configuration of the studio/live set it was assigned to.. and even more so.. if the sound itself was actually designed around a particular live/studio set..
So unless we are given dedicated Rev chorus/delay for each patch per channel we will never achieve our goal in that sense..
so its a trade off..
I now see single mode as a separate sound source to all other modes and also i see single mode as a way to pull full instruments and studio/live mode as away to pull in patches not instruments..



[img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/myconfig.jpg[/img] - [img]http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attach/116700-UT.jpg[/img] - [img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/filesystem.jpg[/img]






Listen to GlassSlipper


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Results not Excuses

My Setup

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 18:54
"mojkarma:
Its been said from roland that they would like to do away with single mode altogether..
this would mean on the next workstation incarnation all patches would have to be designed without Rev chorus/delay or built around a studio or live set..
But then does that just repeat the same problem we have in single mode..?
Because if you start browsing through your studio/live sets and see some nice sounds you would like to reuse somewhere else... you will start to realize that its character is dependent on the rev/delay mfx configuration of the studio/live set it was assigned to.. and even more so.. if the sound itself was actually designed around a particular live/studio set..
So unless we are given dedicated Rev chorus/delay for each patch per channel we will never achieve our goal in that sense..
so its a trade off..
I now see single mode as a separate sound source to all other modes and also i see single mode as a way to pull full instruments and studio/live mode as away to pull in patches not instruments.. "

The problem is not in the existence of a single mode. Absolutely nothing wrong with that. But Roland will surely try to reinvent the wheel and create even a bigger mess in a successor. The problem is also not in the fact that there are only two send effects.

Let's go back to the problem I explained:
there is a patch and the delay is an important part of that sound. On the effect part, you have three possible sources to apply the delay:
1. PFX
2. Chorus - set to a delay FX
3. Reverb - set to a delay

In the particular example patch, the sound designer turned the PFX off and decided to use the Reverb for the Delay effect.
I'm not even a pro musician in the sense that I live form the money I earn from music and I would never design the patch in such a stupid way. I would ask myself "wait, what will happen to the sound if the user selects it in the live/studio mode?"
I would use the PFX for the delay effect. Certainly not the Send Reverb block.
In that way, the patch would sound almost identically as it sounds in the single mode (where I prelisten the patches before I select the most appropriate one).
By using the reverb send level as the source for a delay effect, you either loose the specific sound of the patch in the live/setup mode where you have manually recreate the delay since you can't copy effects, or you are not able to apply any reverb to other patches in the live/setup mode because the send reverb block is used for the delay.
I could understand if a beginner in sound design would make it in that way, but Roland shouldn't hire beginners to create patches for their top line workstation.

I don't miss 16 separate send effects. Two are enough. It would be especially enough if Roland wouldn't persist on the ancient reverb/chorus scheme. Why can't any effect be used as a send effect? Or at least, why cant I use two different reverbs as sends. Why is one hardwired to chorus and the other to reverb? And than some "genius" consume the only source for the reverb with a delay effect, blocking the whole live/studio setup from accessing a reverb effect.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 19:40
Did someone rewind the forum clock to 2008? I see the same discussions popping up again...
Jesse J / The Fantom G Facebook group - Please join!

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

16 Dec 2010, 19:44
mojkarma:
I suppose they should have when designing default patches in single mode used a single re-verb setting for all patches and a single chorus setting.
in that way all patches would be universal and as you say dedicated PFX for delay or whatever...
But unfortunately.. patch design has really relied on MFX rev delay and all other fx for its design even in soft synths so they probably just got carried away in creating the patches to be heard more than to be used in other modes..
and then of course maybe some live sets where designed specifically from within its own environment too..



[img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/myconfig.jpg[/img] - [img]http://forums.rolandclan.info/pub/attach/116700-UT.jpg[/img] - [img]http://www.geocities.com/cpmul/filesystem.jpg[/img]






Listen to GlassSlipper


X-Bugs.org

Results not Excuses

My Setup

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

17 Dec 2010, 01:55
and the reverb is pan-delay, to create a set of patches incl. this one we could use an MFX (used as reverb for other parts) (unfortunately not applicable in LIVE mode, only studio mode.

Re: Roland Customer Relationship

17 Dec 2010, 04:30
You all just shut up!!! You all better shut up now!!! I will ban all of you, do you hear me, ALL OF YOU!!!

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