Roland Customer Relationship

mojkarma, if my sources are correct... you are getting exactly what you dont want in the next generation Roland machine. It seems they may be taking more hints from Open Labs than you would like.

I understand your argument, but no need to make things up to prove your point. There is nothing wrong with the design of the XXL. Everything you need is there and is very functional. You never have to worry about leaning against the keybed... no matter what you do as the 15" touch screen kind of eliminates the need for much use of the touchpad ... but it is there, if you need it(I use a mouse). Also, watch a few of the XXL videos. They throw everything at it... 40+ tracks, 40+ effects, the kitchen sink... and the CPU usage never hits over 7%. So, that argument can be nipped in the bud.

Regardless, the G had design flaws that interrupted my work flow. For ME, that was a big deal. I write and produce albums for other artists. I dont have time to work around anything. Which is why the XXL was right for ME. I still have a vested interest in seeing the G succeed, as a lot of my studio consists of Roland products. Had it not been for their complete silence and lack of support, I would still own it. They basically scared me into selling, thinking that if I didnt... I would get $500 for it in a month. What they do in this situation with the G, will wholly affect the business I do with them in the future. I cant afford to waste time and money with a company that essentially turns their back on their customers. I learned my lesson with Alesis and the Fusion, and dont plan on ever going through that again with any other company.

Again, I had quite a lot of fun with the G, but in my situation... it just didnt live up to my expectations of what Roland promised... and that can be OK with you, but I am in a very professional situation and dont have a minute to waste. I have to write and produce an entire album for one of Disneys up and coming girls... and I have to focus solely on the music and not the technicalities of getting it down or working around limitations.

I understand everyones up in arms, and I was also... but I wasnt going to sit and wait for Roland to essentially destroy any resale value I may have in the unit. I dont collect keyboards like a lot of people. I have no need for multiple keyboards, especially now. The XXL comes built in with software called Mimic.. You hook up any midi keyboard via midi and the audio outs and press go.... and you copy that entire keyboards sound set. The ultimate in hands free sampling.

Again, I understand everyones stance on both sides of the fence... and I wish everyone the best of luck in whatever they decide.

@ acelumper: is it REALLY that bad?

@ atlas5: Thanks for your post, quite good advice. Over the last 6 months I have been really looking into the hardware options and the G quite a bit while still using my software based rig live so I can really decide how I feel about it all. Read all the guides on Roland's site, flicked through the manual watched all the videos I can find. I'm generally quite satisfied with it bar the sampling limitations, which are really silly. Not too fussed about sequencing on it, it's more for live playing, couldn't care less about the lack of arranger functions. The ARX thing is not a big one for me though though I would buy the EP card. I'll use a spare MacBook as an expander if I need different sounds. I have all the software anyway. Compared to the alternatives it appeals to me the most. I can't really buy it right now (came close a few times) but when the band restarts early next year I'll be making my decision (I'm using my JP-8000 and DX7 which I had repaired as controllers right now, may even give the Akai MPK another chance, so I'm not short on boards as you can see). If Roland drop a new one at NAMM I'll see how that is, if not it's between the G, XF and maybe a Nord. We'll see. Rolands keybeds are awesome though!

Though I really dig and enjoy very much composing and using all the fabulous functions of the Fantom G8 which is a real useful and so wonderful machine, I must admit it is a lot stupid from Roland to act like they do concerning thei marketing job: They are going to lost more and more money with their kind of marketing service. It will be more value for them to make evolutions for the fantom G instead of imagine one more time the next big machine which is never the next big machine. Sad.

Right now its kinda no win for them now...

they have acted so badly towards their customers that trying to make amends with an update 2.x will be too little too late and will be greeted sourly..
and the possibility of a new workstation regardless of how great it is hyped.. will have rolands historical bad and slow support and customer relationship tagged to it so much so.. that people wont really care or want it unless there really stupid.

Im afraid its R.I.P. for roland from this generation as far as new products go..

Dont get me wrong.. its not that they dont produce good products but its how they don't support them once they are on the market that is a MONSTROSITY!!!

"they have acted so badly towards their customers that trying to make amends with an update 2.x will be too little too late and will be greeted sourly..
and the possibility of a new workstation regardless of how great it is hyped.. will have rolands historical bad and slow support and customer relationship tagged to it so much so.. that people wont really care or want it unless there really stupid. "

That are my concerns too.
An update would be considered a little (to) late and releasing a new workstation would actually prove that they don't care about their actual products, thus making me not to buy it under any circumstance...

Roland knows these things already.. I don't think they will take a chance on a new WS.. unless they are stupid.. especially since a WS is intended for producing electronic music.. I think they will continue development with the Juno's as far as live players go, making a higher end juno or something along the juno lines.. improve keybeds, an 88 weighted key version, better sampler, small simple sequencer or looper for keeping live timing etc.. something that wont be a fantom..

I think that Roland will not release a new workstation at NAMM - because that makes no sense in terms of R&D and near-term investments. Fantom-G has perfect hardware, that is still up to date. If they wanted to sell more of them, they would invest into developing new system software with a more complete sequencer, add more effects algorithms, etc.

That was my first thought too, considering the fact that sales on expensive workstations are have dropped in the West.

However, if ARX proves to be a miscalculation on Roland's part, -and I believe this is the case-, then it would make sense for Roland to release a new further developed Fantom G with flash memory expansions, because it would enable them to take up where they left off with the SRX series, and instead of hardware ROM expansions they now can release their expansions as software soundfiles.
For Roland it would mean that there is no hardware cost involved anymore, for customers it would mean lower prices for soundfile expansion packs (substantially lower when compared to ARX), plus the added advantage that they can burn their own favorites from any soundpack to flash.

In any case I don't think it makes sense for Roland to leave the Fantom G as it is now because the competition does not sit still and this will affect your own potential sales in the coming year.
So, I'm curious as to what NAMM will bring, Roland's answer to the Motif XF in the form of an upgraded Fantom G (possibly with flash memory), or a new updated OS for the current FG (and possibly new ARX boards).
I would be very surprised if the latter proves to be the case because, as has been said here already, it's a bit like too little too late. Roland should have been on top of the FG right after the release thus giving them a jumpstart over the competition.

Anyway, the coming NAMM will be interesting.

So, I'm curious as to what NAMM will bring [ ... ] an upgraded Fantom G (possibly with flash memory), or a new updated OS for the current FG

Could well be none of these

I don't understand why there is so much Roland bashing on this forum. I have had my Fantom G-6 for 3 or 4 months now and I am still as amazed by it now as I was when I bought it.
The boot time is great - even with lots of samples, I find the workflow with the sequencer to be far less obtrusive than the PC/DAW route. And despite the shortcomings of the sequencer I have found it no more flawed than any of the (many) DAWs I have tried, + with less options to cock up, and no need for fiddly hardware/latency setups.
From a live point of view I really don't think there is anything to touch it, mainly due to the awesome 'Patch Remain' function.
All in all, since I bought the G I have been far more musically productive than the previous few years using cubase + reaper and soft synths etc.

I think we should forget updates, forget ARX and just make some music.

"I have had my Fantom G-6 for 3 or 4 months now and I am still as amazed by it now as I was when I bought it. "

Talk to me in 3 years, your views are tinted with rose petals.

"Talk to me in 3 years, your views are tinted with rose petals. "

Well, I've done everything that I need to do on this synth within the last 3 months including (but not limited to) sound programming, sampling, sequencing (with audio recording), file management (with multiple projects), and arranging live sets for gigging and I haven't had one 'ah F*#@' moment. I don't know what else there is to do that I haven't tried already. It seems to me that if you are organized with your data it is a pretty easy ws to use. And yes, I know the file management isn't great, but it really isn't the brick wall everyone is making out it is!!!!

My view is far from 'Rose tinted' it is simply realistic.

Now excuse me while I go make another killer riff.......

: )

People tend to bash Roland here because it is an excuse for their poor career choice. (and you don't get much negative reaction bashing Roland on a Korg forum.) Personally I blame Korg, because I have more Korg equipment! HA HA.

Maybe it's because Roland users are a cut above, and expect more.

Maybe it's Guitar Center's fault we are so flustered. You go into the store and the saleperson has no idea what the instrument is capable of and they really don't understand your needs, There all a bunch of Guitar Players if you ask me. And to top it off...the units are dusty with finger prints on the screens, blown demo speakers, you have to make your purchase choice based on poor insight, just mnarketing & salemanship.

Maybe it's my fault, because I kinda like the FG and I think Roland customer support is ok.

Please respond, as it makes me happy when your frustrated! There is no entertainment value in helping one another move forward with our endeavors.

Where can I get a rose colored screen saver?

Thanks to you Flumpster, everything is looking better! Funny thing, this warm feeling deep inside me, is make my FG sound better.