Roland Customer Relationship

http://www.roland.com/support/gpl/

wow, I'm impressed, but why isn't this possible with the Fantom G OS?

Best Regards
Tobias

I can understand peoples frustration over the lack of communication about the direction of the FG series. As a potential buyer of this keyboard it has been peculiar to me, especially as here in Australia they are quite an investment to buy and rarely come up second hand. As I mentioned in other threads I've been 100% software with a MIDI controller for my live work, but have found the setup not to my liking. So I looked into hardware boards again. First at the Juno Stage, which I liked and then thought maybe an X7 would be better due to sampling, which then led me to the FG. I thought that would be overkill but looking into I have been seriously considering it as it's a powerful package. We've just had our first child so I'm holding off til next year when I start playing again. Still the FG represents some serious cash, so I want to know what it's future is. The odd thing about Roland is sometimes they just don't finish things. The other standout case I can think of is the D-70, which sounded gorgeous, probably a bit better than the JV range did at first, but was basically rushed into the market and then terminated so the JV range could be developed. It was a well designed instrument that they never finished to it's full potential. It seems the FG is the same. The positives of what they have done with it are amazing. They really are. It appeals to me greatly as an immediate fun live board, and I have been using a "cutting edge" setup computer for a while. Roland sound design, for me, can be excellent, and the UI is great. But then they don't finish the OS! I love my other Rolands and aside from familiarity and the brilliant live performance functions the attraction to the Fantoms for me above other boards is the sampling, which really opens it up for customization, so you wonder why they didn't implement a good file system for such a great feature. If the chicken systems guys release the Fantom Editor they are talking about that would be a life saver, but why didn't Roland do it themselves? It's so obvious people would want to move things such as multisampled instruments from project to project and convert out of other libraries into Roland format. Roland could have even released their own extensive sample library as add ons so people would have backward compatibility with previous generations, but they don't seem to have. It's like they went 95% of the way. On the other hand, I guess it depends in whether the end user takes and "it is what it is" approach or expects more. The JD-990 is a relatively odd module compared to it's contemporaries, but no one cares and uses it for what it is as it has a better sound. My JP-8000 could have been taken further, but I love it anyway. I feel the same with my JV-1080, I accept it as it is and use it accordingly. The FG problem seems to stem from that Roland have really tried to make the killer board with the FG but run out of steam at some of the extras that justify the pro price tag and that's frustrating. Lack of ARX development is odd too. I can see why people suspect the FG may be replaced. A shame they don't tweak it as it's a beautiful instrument. Much more appealing that it's competitors in my view.

@leh173 if you havent wasted your money on a fantom g yet, please save yourself the trouble of making the same mistake the rest of us did. buy korg or yamaha. hell casio has functions on their boards not found on the g.

Hey Leh173,

The FG is a power house of sound and sequencing. There is room for future improve that may or may not happen.

I recommend you read through the manual and the updates. I'd say if it is missing features or functions you need in your workflow, buy with caution, as updating the OS may never happen. There does seem to be workaround's for what many people call missing features, but workaround's alway mean more effort to reach your end goal, regardless of the instrument.

The File management system is different and confusing for many, it's similar to the MV8000 series, being "project" based. I find I need to use the computer (Mac) to get files where I want them, but this has been an easy task for me.

There is a lot of negative comments out there and some positive ones, you'll have to be the judge.

I was very happy when I move 30 smf's songs from Digital Performer to the FG and they sounded pretty good before even editing to suit the FG (just by hit the play button). Although loading as type 0 and not parsed out to tracks was a lot of work to get them were I wanted before I was done.

Using the instrument live has worked out extremely well for me, allowing me to switch sounds, layering & splitting with ease. Of course this is without sequencing or sampling.

Having the M3 and XS also may have fog my thoughts, but I've found the FG to be a great instrument.

But much like the FX, the FG is not a arranger keyboard. When I am looking for arps and pre-programmed patterns I tend to use the M3 Karma or XS aprs.

I also have a PC3, this one was a disappointment in that the seq/pattern stuff is weak, and I've found I enjoy the FG sound a little better, I really like the last few octave of the FG piano sounds.

Funny thing is despite any issues with the FG, I tend to use it as a workstation (sequencing and song construction) more than any of the others. I also play it a lot, mostly the piano patches.

And your right, it's your money and its a LOT of it, do your research and make an informed decision.

I also have the JP8000, but I never really enjoyed it much, I tend to use a Nord lead or V-synth when I want to program my own sounds and play synthesist sound designer. I hope to get the GAIA for my birthday this month.

I never been one to expand any of my keyboard much (other than basic memory). I find it's always better to get dedicated instruments to fulfill the functions and applications I want. (Plus it keeps my gear hoarder habit fueled)

PS> I would also recommend you check out the Juno Gi, as while it is a scaled back workstation, it seems have most functions people need.

If I was stranded on a desert island, the FG or M3 would be my instruments of choice. They are excellent instruments with lots of depth. But if I chose the M3 I'd have to have the manuals with me, where the FG is fairly easy to grasp for me. I can usually solve my problems (tasks) on the FG without referring to the manual. I had the XS for about three years now and still forget how to operate it.

In my opinion it's really hard from an American perspective to understand the Japanese mindset. Americans (probably Canadians too, etc.) are known for taking the heat and growing stronger because of it. Take a licking and keep on ticking type scenario, etc.

Americans (probably Canadians too, etc.) thrive on "the battle" and that's why sports are a huge part of the American psyche and why sports have a huge American participation too no doubt. And therefore it's very disconcerting when Roland Japan decides to "pull the plug" and run for the hills. What are they afraid of anyway? Their own shadow perhaps?? I realize the Japanese have a propensity to "shun" conflict but if you're going to survive (especially in the 21st century) wouldn't it make sense to "get over your fear of foreigners" and indeed join the 21st century? I'm just saying. If you can't muster the fortitude to go the "extra mile" in today's world and in today's economy it's probably a sure sign that your company is either on the verge of being torpedoed or of possibly going 'belly up' in the not too distant future. If Roland keeps burying their heads in the sand other keyboard companies will see that weakness and they will then seize upon the opportunity to overshadow Roland and proceed to take market share away from them.

One other possible scenario for Roland's continued silence is they already know that further Fantom G development is "history" and so why support a product that, for all intents and purposes, is 'dead in the water' and will soon sink to the bottom of the ocean in a sea of forgetfulness? Fantom G?? What's that? A workstation keyboard? Really?? Never heard of it. The Fantom G conveniently mothballed in a keyboard museum somewhere and never to be mentioned or heard from again. Next in line please?

So in theory, if Roland has ultimately decided to be absolutely "silent" about the Fantom G it may only be because they are busy concentrating on their next latest/greatest effort and indeed the Fantom G has been relegated to mothball status and there will be NO further development on it. If that's indeed the case, then maybe when they come out with their next top of the line workstation they will once again resume communications with all of us here at Roland Clan and we will all be happy campers once again. Until, the next cycle occurs. Time will tell.

If Roland does indeed resume with their communications when the Fantom G successor is released and then Roland goes "silent" once again, it could be a sure indication that Roland's Fantom G successor has also then been "mothballed" with no further development and the vicious cycle will once again repeat itself. Until the Fantom G's successor's successor come out..

If that's indeed going to be the scenario i.e. when Roland does go "silent" it will then be the tale tell indicator that the keyboard will no longer be supported with any more OS updates or any future hardware support, etc., which tells people = TO SELL THE KEYBOARD AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE to get the most money out of it before it loses any more of its value on the open market. So if a Fantom G successor comes out and Roland is once again all "lovey dovey" and gushing with support (and communicating) with their customers on this (and other) Forums and then suddenly all we hear are "crickets" again - SELL YOUR KEYBOARD ASAP!!!

It really is heartbreaking when the company you do business with "shines you on" repeatedly. I can fully understand why huge amounts of former Roland customers are "jumping ship" and heading on over to Yamaha or elsewhere like Open Labs, etc. Consumers aren't dumb. They know that if a company "treats them right" and "helps" them by communicating "with" them and "supports" them on a 'continual' basis - it leads to, more often than not, a lasting relationship with that particular company. Why Roland doesn't yet understand this concept is beyond me. Perhaps they simply don't care if Yamaha or other keyboard companies pull the rug out from under them?? Or maybe Roland has grown "tired" and will indeed go "belly up" in the not too distant future perhaps?? Time will tell I reckon, right? I would hate to see that happen though. The more competition the better, needless to say.

roland mantra " we design the future " and they do. their own extinction.

Although I was late to the party Roland did a great job with the Fantom X including releasing the 2.0 OS and plenty of expansion boards esp SRX07. Roland didnt do much with the Fantom G and I have no assurances they will do anything with their next gen workstation. When it ships you better love it because chances are there will be few upgrades.

For anyone looking to buy a workstation I think the advice of Devnor makes good sense: look at what the workstation is now, and base your decision on what you hear and see.

Some of the negativity towards the FG comes from the fact that Roland created high hopes and expectations for the FG's future and the potential of this workstation.
However, seeing what we have now almost three years later in terms of OS updates and ARX expansions, those hopes and expectations have been disappointed.

Prior to the FG FantomX users had seen one SRX expansion board after the other, and the FantomX also received its V2.0 update.

So, seeing that we're almost three years after the launch of the FG with only this year the release of the 1.5 update of the OS, plus the fact there are still only three expansion boards for the FG, there is a bit of a bitter aftertaste when you compare it to the FantomX era, especially since there's no interaction with Roland informing the customers of whether or not they actually intend to go forward with the FG and the ARX expansions or not.

The possibility of ARX expansions created high hopes for the future.
Yet those dreams remain dreams, and possibly Roland has decided to abort its plans for ARX expansions because they are too demanding in terms of development cost, and too expensive for users to become a great success.

Maybe Roland have re-thought their strategy and decided to revert back to the SRX era in the sense that they have decided to focus on sample based expansions only, and aim to provide sample based expansions packs in the future.

In the light of such a possible decision it would make a lot of sense for Roland to do the same as what Yamaha did, and come out with an updated FG with added flash memory.
This way Roland is free to concentrate on providing sample packs expansions at considerably lower cost than the current ARX expansions partly because no hardware is involved in the production of these packs, leaving only the cost of developing the packs.
Since Roland does not communicate much to the customers this is pure speculation of course.

Having said that, it never is wise to buy a workstation based on what is not there yet, and you have to look at what you got.

If you look at the FG as it is now, you get a workstation with some really great sounds and a very powerful platform for creating your own sounds.

The overall structure of the instrument is very logical and easy to understand.

The human interface is very pleasurable, and the Roland team which designed it is to be commended for doing such a great job.
This may seem not very important, but the human interface is an important part of how you experience working with with FG, and I must say that I love the relatively big color screen and the layout, and the feel of the keyboard on my FG8.

In its current state the FG is a workstation which delivers the goods.
As mentioned before, there are areas which can be improved, but for any purchase decision you should consider what you get, not what you hope will come in the future.

Yet in all fairness I have to admit that these hopes and expectations, encouraged by Roland, were also part of the reason I bought my FG, and seeing the results in 2010 I am disappointment not only in those unfulfilled hopes, but also in the fact that the OS updates did not do justice to the promise of what the FG set out to be.
Some of the areas where the FG could and should be improved were not known to me when I bought the instrument.

So I have mixed feelings about the FG, and with Roland residing in an unreachable ivory tower I can't say that I cherish any special warm feelings for the company.
For me it remained just a company like any other, and I cannot say the same about for instance KORG.

If I had plans to buy a workstation I would wait for just another month to see what NAMM will bring.
This will very likely provide us with some more clarity about the status of the FG and Roland's plans for the future.

"If I had plans to buy a workstation I would wait for just another month to see what NAMM will bring. "

SRA.... TIme for another countdown please

I agree with everything Jan said. While I came late in the game, after the G was released... I just felt as if the G was the keyboard that could have been. So many great ideas, that were getting better with OS updates... that just stopped. Sure, there is only so much they can do with OS updates, before they reach the point where the hardware needs upgrading and maybe that is what happened in the G's case.

I like the sensible layout and ease of use within the sequencer... but as awesome as having 128+ tracks is... it doesnt matter if the sequencer is limited in design. You reach a point where you need more effects and you are stuck. So, you have to go external to a software DAW, which defeats the purpose of an internal sequencer in the first place.

Not to mention the archaic sound sets. Any future workstation has to release with VST support to be considered viable. You just cant limit people to your sound sets. There is always going to be an instance when they want more... which is where the ARX card support was supposed to take us... but the price is too high and the selection is ridiculous. Had they released a VPiano ARX card, I never would have sold.

I hear good things, through the grapevine, of upcoming things at Roland... for their next workstation. Though, for me, it is too little, too late. My creativity took a nosedive a year ago, which all lead back to limitations within the G itself. Taking the step back and looking around my studio, made me realize how foolish I had been in design. Which lead me to the all-in-one one solution in the Neo XXL, from Open Labs. Having an entire unlimited studio in a portable package is a gift from God. Being able to upgrade it infinitely, is even better. Add to that, the undying support of the staff... who can log into your very unit, take control of the pointer and show you how to do anything within the unit. That support comes free, for a year, when you purchase the unit.

You can tell the difference between support that loves what they do and support that is just there to collect a paycheck. I hope Roland realizes that.

I agree! Here you go, Flumpster!

woohoo.. namm countdown again. cheers mate.

"I like the sensible layout and ease of use within the sequencer... but as awesome as having 128+ tracks is... it doesnt matter if the sequencer is limited in design. You reach a point where you need more effects and you are stuck. So, you have to go external to a software DAW, which defeats the purpose of an internal sequencer in the first place. "

With all respect to your opinion, but you really have some ridiculous arguments.
First, the number of effects was known from the beginning. It has its limitations and personally I'm sometimes quite unhappy with the effect structure, but it still remains as one of the biggest effect number on a today hardware workstation. Second, just because you have 128 tracks, doesn't mean that you have to have 128 or more effects.
Since you rave so much about the OpenLabs, try to record 128 tracks with 128 or more effects and give us a feedback. Let me tell you: once you have 10 or 12 audiotracks (far away from 128) with effects and a couple of vst's loaded on your Neko, you'll have to put the latency up to avoid audio interrupts. At the end, you'll have a latency which will prevent you completely from being able to play anything on the Neko.

"Not to mention the archaic sound sets. Any future workstation has to release with VST support to be considered viable. You just cant limit people to your sound sets. There is always going to be an instance when they want more... which is where the ARX card support was supposed to take us... but the price is too high and the selection is ridiculous. Had they released a VPiano ARX card, I never would have sold. "

Who says that you are limited to the preset soundsets? Buy an expander, a rack and there you have new fresh sounds. The advance will still be that you'll have an extremely low latency and a guaranteed voice polyphony. And unlike a lot of vst's, you can buy them for cheap used and sell them if or once you don't need or like them. Oh, and before you jump in and say that it's outboard gear and that you want an all in one solution, let me tell you that for high quality high Gb Vst Instruments you need a dedicated HD. For a high track audio recording you also need a dedicated HD, not the same one which holds your vst samples. That makes three Hds (together with the internal system drive which contains the OS and the sequencer). So, where's the difference between hooking up a motif rack to the FG or a HD to the OpenLabs?

I'll say it just again. Nothing against your opinion, but the last thing I'd like to see from Roland is a conventional computer with windows/whatever and cubase/whatever, shaped as a keyboard. Buy a midicontroller and a laptop and there you have your ultimate workstation. It's even better than OpenLabs. And unlike your OpenLabs, you can choose any keyboard you like. Starting from 37 toy keys, up to 88 keys hammer weighted. Hence, you can even buy two different keyboards. For home and road.
Just looked at the picture of NeKo XXL. Must be an incredible joy to work on it by holding your arm in the air while fiddling with the trackpad for hours and avoiding to lean your arm against the keybed...

Did I hear a countdown??

Interesting that 'X' FG owners still feel motifated to read or even to respond to a forum dedicated to an instrument they no longer own.

(and yes I spelled motivated wrong on purpose)

I think I am going over to the Korg forum and bad mouth the Triton Le or better yet, there's got to be a moog forum somewhere.......oh, but I miss these keyboards. Maybe I could find a forum on myself, that's who needs to be dis'ed, selling any instrument is just plain wrong, (so I've learnt)


sorry don't be offended, just go away.