Roland Sh201 + Ableton Suite8 arpeggiator problem + knobs

I also have a similar problem. No matter what I do, no matter what combination of settings I use I cannot get the arpeggiator to play from an external device. Every other keyboard I has does this without problem. Does anyone out there know why this is? I asked Roland support several times but they just kept giving me answers that had nothing to do with my original question. Is this a missing feature? A bug? Something broken? Or am I/we doing something wrong?

Have you got Remote Keyboard activated?

jj

I've done that. Still doesn't play the arpeggiator

my sh-201 and ableton live 8 work perfectly in what you want to do. you must be driving the sh-201 from another keyboard and recording the notes from that? have you set it up as per the daw set up instructions? they are well hidden on the web. it does out put arp produced midi notes. and it can record all adjustments done on the sh-201 panel.

ftp://ftp.roland.co.uk/productsupport/SH-201/SH201Editor110_E/SH201Editor110_E/QuickStart/html/QuickStartE2.htm

you dont seem to have read this from the sound of things. reading this is totally required for the editor/sh-201 to work properly in any daw. the sh-201/editor/daw would be impossible to understand otherwise.

may i also add. you need to run ableton in session or arrangement for it to send a midi sync to the roland. the arps in the sh-201 do not work unless they have a midi sync internal or externally.

No way pugface, in the quick start it says to use midi-thru in the host application, I couldn't find it on Ableton! Can you please advise?

Thanks!

the midi internal sh-201 thru in the sh-201 internal config is i believe what it sends out back (theres loads of thrus!). either thru the usb or midi out. i dont have that on in either case.
i also have the midi thru in 'set-up' as off. this setting is what the plug-in will do. but i found it best being off in ableton. for the sh-201 i generate two midi tracks. one holding the plug-in and the other track configured to midi-in/out with the sh-201 usb midi ports as midi channel 1. this last track gets all the midi recording and playback on. the plug-in track does not get recorded in to. the sh-201 outputs its arp generated notes in to ableton in this track. once the track has clips recorded and playing in this track then. the sh-201 switches off its arpeg and you simply get the recorded arpeg notes. that works well.

ableton will not send midi sync unless it runs (see the top left hand corner bleeps stop). if you want to get ableton to continue to send midi sync in idle you have to make a blank scene with no midi outs and a blank clip included. and select that when not running it. i have a big problem with this in ableton as it wrecks syncing in my virus ti when the midi sync stops. so i do that.

there are other work arounds. you could have an ext. master going to sync ableton. but it hates that like most daws do.

in ableton midi track thru is on by default. simply what it means. is that.. when you record in to midi tracks you will have the inputted midi notes from the keyboard sent thru the track to the sh-201. (normal recording).
When a clip is playing in an ableton track it will break this link automatically unless you have over-write on. at the top of the screen OVR. but i find OVR on ableton an absolute pain as it seems to want to start recording whenever the track is armed.... awful that is if you forget to un-arm the track.

i dont think i know in ableton where midi thru is switched on-off to be honest. in cubase its there alright. i guess prefs should be where it is.

one little tip you should know about ableton and midi recording is the track delays. most people use them to sync up midi to audio. and its a brill feature. i generally make all audio tracks positive and midi tracks zero. this will with adjustment produce really excelent timed events between midi and audio.

some people have slagged off ableton for problems with syncing midi but i find it absolutely spot on. until it stops with the aforementioned midi sync stop but i just keep playing and playing.

If you're just using the SH-201 as a MIDI controller and not recording the audio, there's no need to turn on the SH-201's arpeggiator. Ableton has an arpeggiator plugin that's in the MIDI Effects folder.

You can also use these free plugins, Arpimedes and Stepper:
http://www.tobybear.de/p_midibag.html

sorry pugface, but I really got confused...

I was able to record (in the miditrack holding the VST plugin), the arpeggio notes, but only when I play the notes on the physical keyboard itself.
I was not able to play a sequence of notes in one track, and record the arpeggio notes on the other, I believe that's what you tried to explain, am I right?

I understood the part you said midi thru is on on the VST plugin. Also set off the local on.

To try to simplify the explanation.
Which track PLAYS the notes? MIDI_IN_OUT or MIDI_VST?
Which track RECORDS the arpeggio notes? MIDI_IN_OUT or MIDI_VST?
If you could put a screenshot of your config would be awesome (if it's not asking to much).

Thanks for the tip about recording midi on ableton, I have noticed that. Setting the menu "Option/Delay Compensation" to OFF helped a little bit for me (the default config is on). Other than that if I notice something is wrong I just go to the track and CTRL+U to quantize, in most cases solves the issue.

Thanks!

Hey Re-Member, thanks for the new plugins link.

I understand we have more options, but it would be nice to be able to use Sh-201's arpeggios, there are some pretty cool ones.

as far as i can see there are three midi-thru's

1. the internal one which governs wether the sh-201 resends out back thru its usb or midi connection. i switch both off.
2. the plug-in editor thru which governs wether the track holding the plug-in editor is used for recording (which is what you got but i havent) i switch mine off.
3.abletons midi thru which normal should be on. for normal recording. i always i have mine on.

with arp on, as far as the recording of arps, i can only record the arped notes not the original notes as given to the sh-201keyboard, i use the sh-201 for playing the sh-201 only. i have 4 synths in my set up. i prefer to record the arped notes as can use the clip recorded in other tracks after.

generally you shouldnt be switching off auto latency compensation in ableton. thats there for syncing up every thing like soft vst's, audio tracks, etc;. it would sound awful without it. unless you dont use soft vst's.

yeah, the sh-201 arp generator is ok. but its poss to use external arps like toby or abletons own. i use both in experimenting.
one thing i would suggest you trying is using those two powerful lfo's in the sh201. put the lfos in clock sync and experiment with different speeds different waveforms. along side a arp going or even sustained chord. all sorts of new effects can be brought from them. some incredible spacey pads or modulated sequences. i use square waves alot with lfos. to bring in sounds in layers.

you know the sh-201 is the most under-rated synth out there. most dont try to do anything with it. its bigger sounding than a virus ti. or any korg. it has a harshness that cuts thru mixes. it can sound like fm, string synths of old like the eminent (very subtle adjustments of the supersaw and chorus delay will make a fab analog string sound!!!! theres a sweet point in there!!!!), powerful brass sounds similar to the cs80, choppy organs like korgs, electric piano's. its all possible with a bit of patience. i found the sh-201 has hidden sweet spots when interaction occurs between the effects and doubled osc's. ....sorry about harking on about the sh201 merits. lol.

i am not sure if pics can upload here. be good if they could..

i record on MIDI_IN_OUT not in the midi VST plug in track.
thats because i switch midi thru off in the plug-in setup.

I just got Ableton reading and recording the individual arp notes by going to Preferences > MIDI Sync > MIDI Ports, then setting "Track" & "Sync" for both the Input and Output where it says SH-201 on. Remote should be left off.

Note: If you have the SH-201 set on it's own tempo, make sure the EXT button is turned off before recording (located in the upper left hand corner in Ableton). Having it on will lock up the recording and playback features on Ableton.

If you want to sync the SH-201 to Ableton's tempo, do so by opening the SH-201 editor and going to the "Master" settings, then set tempo to USB. Alternatively, you can press Cancel + Tap , Preset - Bank B, then #4 on the synthesizer itself. The SH-201 will now be synced with Ableton, BUT it will only read the tempo while Ableton is either in Play or Record mode. The moment you press stop, the SH-201 will lose Ableton's tempo signal.