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Piano Sound in Fantom?

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Piano Sound in Fantom?

3 Jul 2010, 12:24
Hello,

as I'm missing some features in my RD700GX (sequencer, sound tweaking, intelligent arpeggiators etc.), I am considering to sell it and replace it by a workstation. After testing out some current workstations in my local store, it seems that I will have to decide between Roland Fantom G8 and Yamaha Motif XS8.

While I like the sounds of the Motif better than the Fantom's sounds, I like the keyboard action of the Fantom much better than the Motif's (after all, the great keyboard action was my top reason to buy the RD700GX).

However, I was strongly disappoined by the accoustic piano sounds in the Fantom. I played around for a while and tested some of the vast number of built-in pianos, but I didn't find one which I liked as much as the 3 built-in SuperNatural technology based pianos in my RD700GX.

A good piano sound is one of my top priorities - I wonder: is there at least one really good piano sound among the great number of sounds in the Fantom (i.e. at least as good as the built-in sounds in the RD700GX)? Alternatively, is it possible to obtain a top-class piano sound for the Fantom by extending it? There's an ARX-board for supernatural electric pianos available which - as I understand it - can be used by the Fantom, but are there also Supernatural accoustic pianos available for the Fantom? (as I understand it, the Supernatural piano extension board for the RD700GX cannot be used with the Fantom?)

Cheers,
Akee

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

3 Jul 2010, 12:29
Somebody might have another opinion ... but imo no ... The lack of a knock-your-socks-off piano -- or even a good one -- has been one of my stumbling blocks in "upgrading" Fantom-G from Fan-X ...
Some tunes and whatnot ...

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_music.cfm?bandID=405125



some tunes and whatnot ...
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=405125

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

3 Jul 2010, 14:03
Pianos in FG is good. Reading the Cover is boring so you need to turn the page on some of these stock batches but most of it is good to me. XS is good too but I find the FG stick out more often since I rarely do solo's.,LOL!
So...in your face or get to the heart of it and tweak it to your liking. FG is like a baby that you nurse it to majority (my own opinion no reply). for me, since I compare my FG with a Motif ES side by side, it is actually a good combination, but I lean toward the FG for the sound. I do sample some synth from the motif. which is like 1 or 2 the most. Roland could any time now come out with a supernatural piano for FG (if they decide to) which they did for the RD 700GX's but who knows...the possibilities on FG is just well up to you..:D

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

3 Jul 2010, 14:12
To start with, I have yet to experience two "real" acoustic pianos that sound the same. While we all know what the piano sounds is, we all tend to have different preferences based on reasons we'll never know.

The sampled piano sound has many variables that may make the difference for most people.

Alway pick your piano sounds to fit your application, live vs studio or solo vs ensemble, and the genre has some bearing as well.

Your monitoring environment will change your mind as well, speakers/headphones/room acoustics.

There is also the keybed, key feel, and velocity curve settings, this can have a great impact when jumping between weighted and non-weighted keys.

There is also the electronics, how the sample is handed and processed (some software code), and the A/D convertors all sound different. Speaking of process the FX's in the keyboard and how it's use has a very large impact on the sound.

The good news is, with a little (or a lot) of editing, the patch can be solved or remedy of most problems and meet many desires.

My favorite unedited pianos sounds come from the Fantom X, then the M3, then the Fantom G, then the Motif XS. But with a little effort I've worked the Fantom G pianos sounds to my liking and find them useful in all my applications, I accomplished this by A/B'ing the sound I like and tweeking the FG to match, it's not always the parameter you think..
Fantom G & X7, Motif XS6, M3, V-synth, JP8000, M1, Wavestation, Radias, Nord Lead 2X, Karma, Snow, electribes and other groove boxes.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

3 Jul 2010, 21:48
your best option is to get the Supernatural Piano expansion in your RD700GX and get a G6. use your RD to play and G6 for sequences/arrangements.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 07:05
roland fantom g, x, yamaha motif x series, korg m3. all there pianos are crap when played solo. they can be ok in a mix. the only answer is a v piano, gem rpx, promega ,or pianoteq. i havent heard the roland rd700gx with supernatural. but kenchan has that and a v piano so it must be good.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 07:08
johnc, to each their own... V-Piano is terrific, but pianoteq sounds way too artificial and synthetic.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 07:21
funny thing you should say that as i have downloaded many of there demos. there is something about the tone that was not quite right. and so i still use the gem rpx. though i would definitely not say it sounds synthetic just lacking in a fullness of tone like a cheap upright piano. however it and the the other pianos i mentioned have one quality which makes them sound like an acoustic instrument. zero velocity switching. and thus a continuous change in tone with velocity. all real acoustic instruments have that property and without it the human ear will never be deceived.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 07:35
I'll agree with Art about the Pianoteq. I've used it and it sounds way to childish to my ears, although I'm no pianist.

I usually go for sample libraries inside Kontakt or Kontakt Player, like the Best Service Galaxy II, or even the best for me in its category, the Synthogy Ivory.

I think that, when it comes to piano sounds, even though the use of modelling technology has achieved great progress, with the example of the V-Piano being the most profound case, it needs more enhancement till it will be able to beat the great sample libraries.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 07:54
interesting. pianoteq is used by lots of professional pianists as it considered one of a few digital alternatives to an acoustic piano. the v piano is the other and it is by far the best due to its superior tone. if anybody thinks the roland korg or yamaha workstaion romplers sound more like a real piano than pianoteq. well.........................................

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 08:50
johnc, have you actually played pianoteq? Maybe they improved their model but a year or so ago it sounded, how to say, very, very far from real, at least the Fantom-X and Fantom-G pianos are way better.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 09:39
i have played the pianoteq extensively and have the demo installed on my laptop. i was playing it yesterday. anybody can try it as they allow you to try before you buy. i have only used the latest version. version 3. as long as you have a duel core cpu running at around 1.6 megahertz or more it will run. use the asio drivers from the fantom g and you can get the latency down to about 6.3 milliseconds. if you use a pc shut down ALL the background operations and it runs great. i will be waiting for the v piano technology to come down in price before saying goodbye to my gem rpx. only about 12 to 18 months for that i reckon;) as a cheap as chips cpu will run it then. excuse the pun lol as i said, lots of professional classical pianists use pianoteq. read the reviews. but as with ever thing else, make up your own mind.

Re: Piano Sound in Fantom?

4 Jul 2010, 13:48
Well to the average punter that knows naff all about pianos the Fantom X and Fantom G offerings are just fine! And when I say 'punter' I mean the drunk dude and dude-ess in the auidience that would be partying to any band that I am playing for!

I mean if we all wanted a 'decent' piano sound then surely we'd go out a purchase a 'piano' as opposed to the Fantom G or faffing about with PC plugins? In fact had we'd done that then this thread wouldn't exist? Right?

I think that some have to realise that the Fantom is a 'Jack of all Trades' and a 'Master of None'...if you want real drum sounds then buy a real drumkit, if you want real Synth sounds then buy a Jupiter 8, if you want real Pianos then buy a piano etc etc etc...that lot must be near to £20k eh?

For something like £2k retail the Fantom X and G offers a hell of a lot as does it's Yamaha and Korg opposites!

For the price band (which is pretty cheap) the Fantom is good value and those that are being held back from buying the G just because of the Piano patches, come on...give me a break! You need to be thinking of something else to do the job of Piano if it's that important as the G or the X for that matter is not targetted at the Piano market...they are workstations! And damn fine ones too for such little financial outlay!

Of course the above is all my own opinion and I do not wish to cause any offence :o)

Yours

Darth X8 (The Fantom Menace)
Darth X8
The Fantom Menace

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