Opinions CP1 vs. RD700GX w/SN expansion

Any chance you can pass the rhodes tweaks in a SETUP file?

I have got nowhere tweaking my GX rhodes... it just feels wrong to me...

KPro81, thanks so much for that review, it is quite informative! Are you sure that the white keys are only wood on the side? I'd heard of these sorts of shenanigans going on in other Yamaha DP actions but not the CP1.

It's also very interesting to hear the comparison between the UIs on the two DPs. I would have thought the Yamaha would win there since it has a specific lay-out for a limited set of voices, but then it has been my experience that Yamaha tends to make fairly cryptic UIs - e.g. I'm never quite sure which button to press or when to press it on my Motif Rack ES, and I need to get out the manual for our P120 when I want to change something that doesn't have a dedicated front panel control.

I did a DPBSD review of the CP1 a while back:

http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/1...
http://www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=7ef2fd9c0f59e62824a6...

For me decay of the low and mid notes in the CP1 isn't "wobbly" enough - I fear they over processed the loop to remove the "looping" sound and ended up throwing out some of the baby with the bathwater - and with all that I can still clearly hear looping, particularly on C3 of the test. I can also hear stretching of the lowest CP1 notes - call me crazy, but a single sample stretched over a distance of 4 notes just shouldn't be happening on a flagship DP released in 2010. And Yamaha seriously needs to work on their sympathetic resonance algorithm.

The SN process seems to get a lot of important things right that are associated with piano sampling and playback. It's very encouraging.

been in a similar debate for a while and looking at all the reviews and demo's etc. etc. i still think the RD700GX with SN expansion (aka RD700GX-F) is superior over the CP1.

Orangefunk, I know what you mean about the Rhodes just simply feeling wrong. I'll post some of my settings shortly. It's a process of first dialing in on the particular voiced Rhodes that you want using a lot of the mechanical options that the UI allows and then you have to get the EQ's and volumes right. On top of that you are going to want to adjust the touch setting to something that is light. Unfortunately, no one would want to have to do this on a board this expensive, just to get a decent Rhodes sound (especially when they claim they are "SUPERNATURAL") Good thing is that you can and if you play around with some stuff you'll yield some convincing results!

Dewster, I'm glad I could help. Yes the keys are not solid wood. I read about that elsewhere and I believe it was confirmed when I played it because the key didn't display the same physical up and down force and "feel" as that of a solid wood key. It's kind of hard to explain. Even compared to my 1979 MKII buttery light action of my Rhodes, the CP1 didn't have the same "thick" sensation of a SOLID wood key.

And I must say that the new revised Roland ivory key actions (after fixing the earlier ivory wear problems) are just tacitly superior and more enjoyable to play than the CP1. Like I said, the CP1's ivory feel wasn't too different from their plastic key surfaces. Where as Roland's ivory key surface is clearly something that you WILL notice.

>>>I realize that the CP5 is supposed to be the direct competition for the GX

CP1 is not direct GX competitor - CP5 is. CP1 is yamaha response to roland's V-piano.


IMO yamaha's pianos and EP's are superior to GX or GXF out of the box,
although I could manage creating EP I like on GX I still prefer yamahas EP.

Hey delirium I'm not sure I understand the first part of your post. I was accurate in stating that the CP5 is the GX's direct competition. I mentioned that in my post because I knew the the CP1 was to be a direct competitor for the V-Piano, but I felt that the GX with the SN board was actually more on par. I knew that some would feel that by comparing the CP1 and GX w.SN board is a little like apples and oranges, but I beg to differ, especially after playing the two!!!! IMO the V-Piano should be compared to something else (not sure what) because it is a one trick pony. The CP1 is not the same kind of pure modeling that the V-Piano is and the V Piano has no Eps. BTW I didn't care for the sound of the V-Piano either. I'm definitely sticking with my GX and SN board!!!

i too think the RD700GXF would be the direct competitor to the CP1 despite the price difference.

VPiano is different from any digital piano's out there so as KPro mentioned, it should be separated from other stage piano's at least until others come out with similar modeling in hardware based piano.

I agree, regardless of how Yamaha confuses us by abusing the word "modeled" in the CP1/5/50 literature, the CP1 is a looped, stretched, multi-velocity layered ROMpler. Not in the same category as the V-Piano at all.

I wouldn't be surprised if the SuperNATURAL AP process used synthesized resonant structures for the note decay, which would make the RD700GXF more like the V-Piano than the CP.

>>>Hey delirium I'm not sure I understand the first part of your post.

sorry, my bad - I misread this part of your post.
Anyway yamaha's piano is superior to my ears and roland's RD700GX keys action to my fingers.

I played the CP50 anc c5. I was disappointed. I like the RD700GX better. Better action. Better layout. Especially for live - the Yamahas look like they have to be programs for layers.

Yamaha - two disappointing products.

Also - the cp50 was heavier than I expected, especially for not having wooden keys - and the worse Yamaha action. Worse than the P140 IMHO.

In terms of realistic piano action, Kawai MP8ii blows them both away (and the V-piano for that matter); too bad most of the sounds on the Kawai are lame. So what's the relevance here to the RD/CP showdown? Just to point out that neither action is convincing: RD will give you carpal tunnel syn. and CP is too wimpy to take a good spanking. If you really care about action, please give MP8 a test drive, and no, I'm not a Kawai rep.
As for sounds between RD/CP, If the CP contains even part of the Motif library, the EPs,organs,and just about everything else kick the RD's ass, except maybe the pianos. Roland's non-piano sounds, while fun to play, never sound as close to the real thing as Yamaha IMO. While my A-90 and many other Roland instruments keep me as a faithful member of the clan, as you can tell I'm not a big RD-700 fan. I'd buy the CP1 if money were no object.

As for sounds between RD/CP, If the CP contains even part of the Motif library, the EPs,organs,and just about everything else kick the RD's ass, except maybe the pianos.

vinny -pretty silly not to have nice piano's on a digital piano, huh?

yamaha = nice try, but no cigar.
kawai = go home, stop trying to make piano's.

My two cents...
I recently played the CP1, and of course it was good, but I must say I like the RD700GX even better than the CP1 (and better than just about every other stage piano). Some reasons:

- The key action. The key action on the RD700GX is about as good as the Kawai MP8 action, and it seems only a bit less than the V-piano action. The Yamaha action is definitely not bad, but the feel of the key surface is less nice.

- The quality of the Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds. I used to be of the opinion that the R700GX electric piano sounds were very good but not the most realistic. However, listening to many recordings, it seems my view on 'the characteristic Rhodes sounds' came from other stage pianos, not from recordings of actual Rhodes pianos. With some adjustments (I posted them on this forum), I now have a sound comparable to some of my favorite albums (the Herbie Hancock classics, or the recent recordings by Chris Potter Underground - which are great by the way
I think most people think that for the best Rhodes and Wurlitzer sounds, you should buy a Nord Stage, but I strongly disagree! (Even though that seems to be a nice instrument too: it looks great, seems easy to control if you work with it for a while, is the lightest of the top stage pianos. If only the keys were more piano-like (and the sound too ! And the cost of it is really too high.)

- I love the piano sound of the RD700GX. I can remember it was way better than that of both the CP300 and the Nord Stage when trying it in shops for several hours (with headphones). Of course, both Yamaha and Roland now have made improvements in their piano sounds. I must say though that I'm more than satisfied for now with the RD700GX stock piano sound, and that differences in piano sound are quite small compared to differences in other instruments. Btw, the biggest problem with piano sounds (especially on stage) is usually the amplification, not the piano sound itself.

Some other pros of the RD700GX:
- It's a great, versatile MIDI controller. I don't know about the Yamaha's or Nord Stage, but they seem less focused on that type of functionality.
- If you take some time to make good set-ups (and carefully choose the MFXs, pedal assignments, etc.) it is extremely user-friendly in live situations. Whereas e.g. the Nord Stage has the advantage of having most settings in reach quite quickly (even though I am always somewhat confused in shops...), it is extremely handy to have two MFX buttons for the most used effects in a live situation. The same goes for the equalizer.

The biggest disadvantage for me is its weight, 25 kg is really a bit too much. The pitch bend wheel next to the keys doesn't help either to make this a compact instrument... I recently bought a lightweight keyboard for rehearsals.
Also, 9 drawbars instead of 4 would have been nice too...

Interesting discussion...

I've not been lucky enough to play a V-Piano or a CP1 yet, but as I've got a RD-700GX w/SN piano card and also a Fantom XR and a Motif XS Rack, I think I can make some comments knowing what I'm talking about.

First, I disagree with the claim that the motif has much better non-piano sounds than the RD (or Fantom X, as many of the RD sounds are the same). Perhaps "out of the box" Motif's presets are better in general terms, but it depends on what specific sounds you're considering. Every synth has got its strong and weak points in terms of realism and sound quality. And as long as you tweak RD/Fantom's sounds a bit, or if you add some SRX cards, they can be just as good, if not better, than Motif's. In the effects department the Motif is better, though. But on the other hand, Roland's synthesis engine is far far better than Yamaha's in terms of flexibility and power. In sum, the best alternative is having both

As far as acoustic piano sounds are concerned, and not having heard neither the V-Piano nor the CP1, the SN card for the RD delivers the best piano sound I've heard to date. The Motif XS piano is good, but the SN really makes the difference.

Also, I'm really interested in the claim that the RD keyboard can lead to the carpal tunnel syndrome. I know of no one who has suffered from it for having played the RD, but I'm concerned as this is the one I play!

My bottom line is that, at least today, the RD-700GX w/SN card has the best quality/price ratio available, and one of the best (if not the best) acoustic piano sounds in absolute terms.