Fantom-G

Just too many problems...

Re: Just too many problems...

28 Apr 2010, 12:57
Personally I know nothing of the M3 motif or the like..

However I will say the G has more going for it than not, its just a pitty that when it does get going we always seem to hit a wall that should`nt be there and then have to workaround it.

At this point i have managed to get around most problems
some are just hard wired and cannot be resolved except by roland.



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Re: Just too many problems...

28 Apr 2010, 13:17
cminor:
Even if I would like to buy a fantom-g, all the time spend on the fantom-xr, all my work, is wasted, because, all the sampling, and specially, all the drumkits I've programed in the XR can not be transfered in G.


To be fair, backward compatibility is the exception, not the rule—with nearly all manufacturers.

One group of people wants to recreate any old patch in any new product, which means a company with more than a decade history of synths must have millions of patches available, with all the same waveforms and identical synth engine. Another group of people says "Oh man! I see old waveforms and old features—why are they recycling all this old crap? Give us new stuff!"

The Fantom-X and XR were able to load in XV-5080 patches (from over ten years ago). At some point, Roland has to say "Okay, that old file system has to go. We need to move on." Unfortunately for you, they moved on right after the XR.

The bad cop answer to your question is "Yeah, that's why I have a room full of keyboards—to recreate old tracks." The good cop answer is "I'm really sorry, but that's why I have a room full of keyboards—to recreate old tracks."

For example, my JP-8080 is used for one custom patch. Been trying to nail it in other synths, to no avail. So I keep the beast. Six damn rack spaces. :(

Re: Just too many problems...

28 Apr 2010, 14:45
Audacity tell my just two things:
Is there a way on any fantom, to export one, just one program with sampling and load it again on other fantom?
does any fantom loads anything else the CD's ?
(Akai or Roland to be corect)

???
Nop.
So for any kind of library that is not AKAI or Roland CD (not even akai file !!), I have to load every wave file for each velocity for each note...

So it's not compatibility I am asking, as much more, saving/loading other formats.
I tell you if Fantom-G was able to load at list akai files (not cd's) , then it was the best.
Do not ever be ashamed of what you are, what you feel, and what you think. The truth hurts, but it is necessary.

Re: Just too many problems...

28 Apr 2010, 15:44
As I understand it, YASE and/or Chicken Systems Translator do a decent job of creating Fantom-G patches from nearly any sample format.

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 04:13
Ok,
since some "pro" debaters are even asking me to delete my posts because they strangely consider it as a battle against them or the FG (what a nonsense), ill make my points clear once more.

1.
I made it very clear what my focus on using the keyboard is. I'll repeat it once more and even more if needed. I'm a gigging musician. I'm focused on anything what the keyboard does or has to do on stage. That's the part, where I'm focused on. That's the part where I expressed my complains on. At least, I tried to say where I see problems with the keyboard and some serious flaws.
Mentioning that it has 24 audiotracks doesn't help me in any way about the problems I see when it comes to using the machine as a gigging tool. There are basically two kind of users: those who sit in their home studio, producing their songs, and those who gig live. Both uses the FG and they mostly have completely different needs. The first group doesn't care if they need to press ten buttons to dial up a patch, the last group doesn't care if there is 1, 24 or 240 audiotracks.
So, even for the third time: I made my position clear. Don't try to prove me wrong about the greatness of the keyboard because I'm not an idiot and know exactly where it delivers and where it fails in the job, I have to do with it.
2.
It was not me who mentioned any product from the competition in first place. I was asked to give some arguments about my statement that it's simply not true that the competition is weak.
3.
There is nothing wrong in comparing a product with a competitive product. That's what competition is for. Otherwise, we would all still use a derivate of the D50 with some minor changes. People honestly make comparisons with other keyboards because they want those good features too. It's simple: Hey, I would like to have feature A from the product B in the FG. What's the point in responding to somebody: Hey, but the FG has feature C and D and F which the product B doesn't have?
4.
No, I'm not a troll and not a whiner. I'm a relatively new user on the FG but with a long background in playing and using keyboards. I don't need to have it for one year to be able to point some bad things out. I made my first multisample the other day I bought the keyboard.
5.
It's ridiculous to remind me or anybody else that there are some written and even non written (!) rules about how many times one can say something about a design flaw. I understand that logic if one does that over and over again and trolls in every topic. I don't do that nor did I.
6.
The world is not black and white. It's perfectly ok to say that I like the keyboard but I still have some complains about it. If somebody can't understand this, don't comment. Don't argue. Just ignore the topic and find another where you can say just praises about how great the product is. I wont in any way change your happiness with the FG. Why do you have to convince me, that the keyboard is actually much better than what my experience is?
7.
Saying "don't buy it" or "return it" is the perfect way how to shut any discussion about anything up. It neither helps a customer and even more, it doesn't help the manufacturer who doesn't get his money. If we complain, we do it with the hope that those things will be changed, which can be changed thru an OS update.
8.
You can't try every single feature in the musicshop. Nor can you return every product in any country and get your money back. If I wanted to give the FG back, or even sell it, I surely wouldn't mind to come to this forum. I could say my opinion in any other forum where I'm already a member.
9.
Even if it's a dedicated forum, a user should feel free to say what he doesn't like (in a civil manner of course), without risking to be jumped over by all moderators who try to tell him how the product is still the best and that he finally could or should return the instrument if he doesn't like it.
10.
I basically have 3 complains about the FG. Everything else what I don't like is not a problem to handle. For me: a) the sampling section is made in the best way to make keyboarders life as difficult as possible, forcing him to recreate the same multisamples across 3 successive models, the FS, FX and FG or investing additional money in third party software, b) the effect system, c) the file system

Now, guys, it's up to you if you want to argue further with me trying to prove how wrong I am, that I can leave or that I will be banned.
Whatever you do, the FG will not be a better keyboard, neither for you, nor for me.

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 04:24
Audacity, yase can import only AKAI, and sometimes get big errors (duplicate the time and get a glich).
Second and very important, it's not free.
And the most important:
it does only this: import/export multimaps and sampling, all the effects, all the other patch parameters are LOST.
Anyway, I have to say it, I love my fantom as it is, just like my wife loves me as I am (ugly, fat and bold =)) )
Still, the messege I want to bring is:
Please Roland, start listen to the user/customers needs... and ideas.
Do not ever be ashamed of what you are, what you feel, and what you think. The truth hurts, but it is necessary.

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 07:51
Vote Mojkarma !!
Whine whine everywhere and not a drop to drink ;)

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 08:56
without risking to be jumped over by all moderators

Well I didn't. At least on this thread ;-)
Now, guys, it's up to you if you want to argue further with me trying to prove how wrong I am...

Well, I wont. Maybe Zephyer will. After all he's the one with a patch name in the update :-D
...that I can leave or that I will be banned.

I don't want you to leave. Neither I think there is any reason for you to be banned.
Whatever you do, the FG will not be a better keyboard, neither for you, nor for me.

Wait a second. I can't agree with that. What we do here is helping each other. Help usually makes things better. So if ANY of us gets help on using the FG this will defenitely makes the FG better for the user.

In the end, let me just say I find this discussion very healthy. We ALL do sometimes tend to exagerate a little bit. This is a Roland forum after all. It would not make sense any other way :-)

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 11:15
Mojkarma,

You're cool in my book. :)

No one gets banned here unless they really piss Artemiy off. I'm not sure what JimKnopf did to get banned (I disappeared for a while, working on stuff), but it was probably mentioning the same stuff over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

I actually like JimKnopf, but things did get a bit predictable.

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 11:31
mojkarma?!…:-) Well, you get an A+ for determination LOL! This is kind of long, but only because I addressed each of your points, as well as quoting you…And here we go….again :-)
Ok,
since some "pro" debaters are even asking me to delete my posts because they strangely consider it as a battle against them or the FG (what a nonsense), ill make my points clear once more


IT WAS A JOKE!!! :-D

What are you trying to do here? You have no facts, your theories are flawed and you keep forgetting who said what first. At this point you’re just trying to save-face and you don’t seem to understand that facts can not be defeated. Again, all arguments have a foundation, and the point is to push the argument in your direction so that it seem that you are right even if your are wrong.

But the facts are invincible…and I can just keep repeating what I have already said unless by some miracle God changes the facts involved here. So repeat it all you want but you can not win your argument.

Point 1. Again, I am not saying that the G is the best workstation for anyone in anyway at all. As I said…no matter what….a belief can never be untrue. So of coarse I am fine with your opinions (beliefs).

However…If one car is faster then another or has better gas mileage etc, then those things are facts and can be used to determine superiority according to the purpose for each feature and part…period. In other words, no matter what you want the G to do, in most categorizers, it will do it better than it’s rivals. It’s like saying, if you want to win a race, the car with the faster, most balanced, most efficient parts etc will help you win over the car with the same inferior parts.

Point 2. You do remember that you responded to my first post here right? Then I responded to your response to my post. The next move was yours…(how many time do I have to say this).

In other words, you would have never been asked anything by me if you did not speak to me first!

Point 3. That is not the way it went…You said…
The sampler is incomplete. The basic function for creating proper loops - crossfade loop - is missing. Without it, it is simply impossible to create a loop on a wave without clicking. Especially on acoustic instruments. Kurzweil has it, Korg has it,


Then I said, Now prove that Roland did not intend to make those things as they are on the G in order to cut cost (for example)…..Because there is a huge list of features that are on the G which are not on the gear you mentioned etc etc…read it again. In other words, you can not prove that Roland did not intend to make the sampler as it is in order to balance price, performance, features...ect. And if they intended to make it as it is then…(drum roll)..it‘s not incomplete! And, you are unintentionally spreading lies…which I am trying to stop to help you.

Point 4 is fine…And no one said you were a troll…TWA said
You've actually been very reasonable.
And I agree…I never knew you to be a whiner at all, and I don’t see this as whining…I understand…but know when to stop.

Point 5. All actions have an equal and opposite reaction...do as you wish. But, be prepared for the reactions of others. Public places have rules (and unwritten rules) that must be followed. But you can choose to break the law and suffer the consequences which are issued by those responsible for keeping the peace.

Rules are rules my friend…and they are put in place to keep you safe or to prevent chaos.

Point 6 is fine, and it is ok to say,
I like the keyboard but I still have some complaints about it
But I do not feel it’s ok to say,
The sampler is incomplete. The basic function for creating proper loops - crossfade loop - is missing.


You have no facts and such statements hurt us all more than help us. So I choose to speak out, that’s my choice. But I do feel it would be fine to say… I would like Roland to add a feature (whatever it may be). But use the proper channels…A wish list thread or make it clear that this is just something you personally want. And do not make claims that Roland should of had the features you want already, or claims that the G is incomplete etc. Because you have no proof and someone here will most likely point that out.

Point 7 would not happen if my response to point 6 was respected.

Point 8. Each company can only put their best effort into creating a competitive and desirable product. And the consumer must ensure that their best efforts are put into buying the product that best meets their needs at the time of purchase.

In other words, just do your best to make sure that the workstation has what you need. And that those things work properly. You can visit the music store as often as you like to confirm that the workstation meets your requirement.

Point 9. You can say whatever you like but read my response to point 5. And the moderators didn’t jump on you at all…And if they do it’s because a member (continuously) breaks a rule or just to correct them because they are wrong about something.

And I didn’t jump on you until you jumped on me first…read the first page.

Point 10. Read my response to point 3 again (see how we are just repeating). But just so you don’t have to go back…. You can not prove that Roland did not intend to make the sampler, effects ect as they are in order to balance price, performance, features...ect. And if they intended to make those features as they are then…(drum roll)..it‘s not incomplete! And, you are unintentionally spreading lies..
Now, guys, it's up to you if you want to argue further with me trying to prove how wrong I am, that I can leave or that I will be banned.


Again...You spoke to me first…So who was trying to prove who wrong?
Whatever you do, the FG will not be a better keyboard, neither for you, nor for me.


Errrrumm??? The Fantom-G is the better keyboard for me (that was easy). And you can make your own choice.

But the facts are still in place…And as I said, they can not be defeated.

Thanks Mojkarma…and calm down…LOL

A valiant effort my friend :-)

Re: Just too many problems...

29 Apr 2010, 12:55
Seriously, way too much time on your hands . :p
Whine whine everywhere and not a drop to drink ;)

Re: Just too many problems...

30 Apr 2010, 07:17
Hi.
Let me first complain about this forum. :)
Unfortunately, hard or impossible to quote or to use any smilies. It would help to understand the one or other meaning a little better. I would welcome some more advanced forum software. Probably not possible because Artemiy has to take care about bandwidth.

Now, I'd like just to say two things.
Last night I went to sleep in 3.30h in the morning. I was creating a couple of live sets which I need for a big concert in about 2 weeks. I started at 10h pm and ended the job about 1 am. The rest of the time I was playing the setups and the piano patch and I simply couldn't stop playing until it was really very late. This morning I made my coffee and went immediately into my working room, turning the FG on and playing it. I have to thank my wife because there are not a lot of them with that level of understanding. So, there is definitely a "magic" in the FG, but I would like to change my kinda love-hate relationship more toward the love aspect.
Now the second thing, and I'll say it for the last time:
I had to create some 6 or 7 live setups for a song last night, each setup covering a different part of the song. It is really a very, very tedious work to recreate the MFX (chorus/reverb) 7 times for the same song setups, writing the parameters on paper and dialing all them (predelay, reverb time, high/low damping, ...) manually in. I already have some 150 live setups which I created in the past 3 weeks, so you get the picture what a work it is just to set the MFX.
I simply want to say that, regardless how often it was said. Let me just count to those who desperately want and need that (copy) function.
I simply hope, that Roland by any chance registers the wishes of users. IMHO, It is not the same if one complain appears once, months or years before, or if users/new users complain about the same thing from time to time. That means something and shows what are the points which should be considered in making a new future OS update.
I would also immensely appreciate if Roland would really try to communicate with its customers and show a little more presentation on this forum. IMHO, nothing sells a product better than a good direct relation and communication between the company and the customers.
If they would say that the copy function cannot be implemented for what ever reason which I don't even need to know, hell, I can deal with that as I already (have to) do. At least I would know that it's not possible.
If they don't communicate about those things at all, I cannot know if they are not able, or if they simply don't care.

Have a nice day everybody.

Re: Just too many problems...

30 Apr 2010, 08:16
I had to create some 6 or 7 live setups for a song last night, each setup covering a different part of the song. It is really a very, very tedious work to recreate the MFX (chorus/reverb) 7 times for the same song setups, writing the parameters on paper and dialing all them (predelay, reverb time, high/low damping, ...) manually in.


I just take a picture. I'm almost certain that Roland will address this with a future OS update. =)

Cheers!
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