Memory confusion

It would appear that the SanDisk Cruzer is letting me down too.

Samples and phrases missing from that as well.

I am using the SanDisk Ultra Titanium Cruzer - 16GB.. Mostly works fine and fast... while loading sometimes it misses some samples from loading and says memory full, and I just have to load the samples again from Samples List in a couple of tries and it works..

I don't know if it's the RAM (512MB) or the USB stick..

Thanks for the tip, shakil. I've seen that product available locally.

I'm rather concerned at this failure rate, however. I've tried several USB memory sticks - including ones that other people are recommending in the sticky thread here - and they are all failing to load projects correctly.

It may sometimes only be one or two samples, though often it's a significant number, but that's not really acceptable. If I was doing a gig, I'd expect to rely on the FG loading my set properly and it might only take one missing sample or phrase to ruin a performance. You know, if the drum parts you'd programmed suddenly came out as a piano part if would sound dreadful, look embarrassingly bad, and be difficult to fix in the middle of a gig.

High quality gear like the FG really shouldn't be so difficult to work with. Saving to USB memory is surely one of the basic functions we should be able to depend on.

I'm wondering if there might actually be something wrong with my FG.

@comradec
as I said, the behavior you are describing does not make sense, so you should be experiencing a flaw or a failure of some kind of your (or all the) FG.
This is just a guess, but how did you upgrade your G ? cyclops doesn't seem to have those issues at all.

@cyclops,
How did you upgrade yours ?

@PauloF
I followed the instructions on pages 2 and 3 of the READ_ME_FIRST_130.pdf document that came with the v1.30 operating system update. Steps 1 to 5 - ie, format media on FG, place two installation files on media from computer, place media in FG and boot, power off and remove media, boot up, factory reset. Done it many times now and have also downloaded the OS update from Roland's website again just in case the original download was corrupted in some way.

Everything appears to load properly during the initial OS update installation - ie, 74 samples, 900+ phrases, seven songs and numerous templates. If I reboot the FG without the USB memory connected, with the content only ever having been saved on the internal memory, the OS loads fine with all the v1.30 content in its correct place.

If I then perform a project 'Save As' operation to the USB media, creating FantomG001.prj it appears to go smoothly. But after rebooting the FG I find it invariably leaves out some element of the content.

I do think it's probably being saved, though. That's because each time the missing data will be different. If, for example, sample number 25 is missing the first time I reboot, I am likely to find no25 has been restored the next time I reboot but that no31, no 42 and no57 will be missing instead. The same thing happens with MIDI phrases, songs and studio templates too.

This suggests that the problem is arising at the booting stage and also when project loading, not when it's saved in the first place. It's as if the FG is failing to load some of the samples, phrases or whatever every time it boots or loads a project. But different data is affected on each occasion.

@comradec,
I got your point, and that is defilnetely not a normal behavior !!! Did you copmplaint to Roland Support yet ?It seems that your G is faulty or is having some kind of software bug.

But maybe I was not clear on my previous post, as what I was asking was about your upgrade path, I mean, did you upgrade from v1.20 ? from a previous version ? from the original ? how ?
Could you state the upgrade sequence since you got the G ?

@Cyclops & others NOT getting Comradecs results (i,e, getting Normal results)
What was your upgrade path ?

Thanks
Cheers
PauloF

@PauloF
My upgrade path started with the original, then took in 1.20, the FGConnects project (which is content, not OS, strictly speaking), and finally 1.30.

Tonight I've posted a query on Roland UK's official forum, which is run and supported by Roland UK staff (http://www.rolandforums.co.uk).

@comradec,
Thanks for the info
Let's wait for some other guys info, so we can do a little logical exercise.

Good luck with your complaint
Take care
PauloF

Could changing the system settings be related to the data loading problems I've described?

I ask because I think I've observed a pattern while experimenting in the last hour or so. Using my Transcend JetFlash USB memory I've appeared to get some promising results. I saved the default 1.30 project to the USB memory as FantomG001 and then tried reloading that project several times, both going via the project pages of the menu and via a reboot of the FG6. Good news - all the data was loading intact.

So I thought I'd make some system settings so that the FG6 boots in the way I prefer. Before starting that I performed another 'Save As' operation, this time saving the project as FantomG002. Once again, I tested this via loading and rebooting, and all the data loaded correctly a few times in a row. Promising!

Having established that the FantomG002 project was loading successfully, I changed some system settings as follows:

Power Up Mode to STUDIO
Input Select to USB AUDIO
Digital/USB Input Level to 64
Mix In Switch to ON
Sync Output to ON

I pressed 'Sys Write' to ensure the system settings were saved and then I did another 'Save As' operation, but over the top of the existing FantomG002 project.

When I attempted to load the project again, though, I found I was getting the same data loss problems as previously - ie, numerous samples, phrases and songs were missing.

Going back to the previously saved FantomG001, however, and all the data miraculously loads successfully.

Puzzling. Can it really be that minor adjustments to system settings are wreaking havoc with my FG6? I'm only behaving as the manual instructs, but there does appear to be a link here. What do you think?

Intriguing...but could be related.
At least you know one thing: The problem is not related to the USB stick brand/model !!!

comradec: Have you tried if there is any data loss if you use the internal memory? I'd suggest that you check this out. If your project doesn't fit into internal memory, take some stuff out and try it. If the problem disappears, then you must choose another USB stick to use with your Fantom-G. If you're still experiencing data loss, I don't know what may be wrong. If it was only samples missing, I could possibly blame the sample RAM DIMM, but now I don't know.

@cyclops: The internal memory appears to be working fine. Never had any data loss from that. It's only when using USB memory that problems arise and I've only discovered that this week after spending more time on the FG.

I've done a series of tedious experiments today, doing multiple saves of the default project that's created by v1.30 to USB memory. Things were looking good because three copies of that project - ie, FantomG001, FantomG002 and FantomG003 - saved and then reloaded perfectly from USB on multiple occasions and via both load operations and reboots.

Well, they did until I made some changes to my system settings. When I tried to save a project - FantomG004, FantomG005, etc - after making a minor system settings change - such as asking the FG to boot with the 'Mix In' function activated, the project failed to save and reload properly. Once again, there were samples, phrases and songs missing. And once again, if I rebooted from the same project, I found that data was missing but not necessarily the same data each time. A sample missing in the first load/boot operation would reappear but there'd be different ones missing. I took notes as I performed each test to ensure I didn't mixed up between different projects.

I've tried six USB memory sticks in this synth, from five different manufacturers. Four of the specific products (not just the brand, the model number too) are definitely on the list of tested/approved USB media compiled in the sticky thread elsewhere in this forum. I've bought three in the last couple of days, so I'm reluctant to waste even more money now when I suspect that the results will be exactly the same. I now have far more USB memory sticks than I could possibly use for normal computing work.

It's very frustrating! I shall phone Roland UK tomorrow.

Which USB stick brand do you use? I had slight problems with data loss on a Sandisk Cruzer Titanium U3 4GB. Once I got myself a Sony MicroVault 8GB, these problems disappeared. And there are times that I accidentally alter the System Settings, like activating the Mix In button like you say. I can see it when the project reloads, the lamp is on. Other times I change the pad mode for the Single mode that results in changing the System Settings, but no samples or phrases missing there really in any case.
I'd suggest that you choose a different USB stick brand. Look at the sticky thread that refers to the Clan members approved USB sticks. Maybe you'll get your problem solved this way.

Hi cyclops.

The Clan thread listing forum member recommended USB memory was actually my first port of call. I chose my media based on the recommendations there.

I started off using an 8GB Kingston Data Traveler, which I bought because I knew that Roland's own memory sticks were the same ones re-branded and people here said they were okay. That seemed to be working only because I wasn't really *using it* for project storage. It was simply connected while I messed around with the FG without ever committing ideas to memory. Ony inl the last couple of weeks have I finally taken the opportunity to spend some serious time working on my FG.

Upon discovering my data wasn't being properly saved and/or recalled, I assumed it was simply a faulty flash drive and bought myself an 8GB Lexar JumpDrive FireFly instead. I'd seen reports of people finding Lexar stuff worked okay, but this one didn't. I assumed it was incompatible, as came up earlier in this thread.

Then I bought an 4GB Kingston Data Traveler. No luck there either. Next I tried a 4GB Transcend JetFlash, again an FG user recommended product and one that was sold in a local music technology shop. I've also tried an 8GB SanDisk Cruzer Micro, a 2GB Technika and a 2GB PQI that I happened to own already.

Same problems with all of them. So that's actually seven different flash drive products from six different manufacturers.

I'll try a Sony MicroVault. I used to have one of those for computer work and lost it. It worked okay with computers but then so too have all the other USB memory I tried that didn't work with the FG!

After that, though, I'm going to complain to The Man.

comradec:

Regarding this:

So I thought I'd make some system settings so that the FG6 boots in the way I prefer. Before starting that I performed another 'Save As' operation, this time saving the project as FantomG002. Once again, I tested this via loading and rebooting, and all the data loaded correctly a few times in a row. Promising!

Having established that the FantomG002 project was loading successfully, I changed some system settings as follows:

Power Up Mode to STUDIO
Input Select to USB AUDIO
Digital/USB Input Level to 64
Mix In Switch to ON
Sync Output to ON

I pressed 'Sys Write' to ensure the system settings were saved and then I did another 'Save As' operation, but over the top of the existing FantomG002 project.

You should not have to perform a SAVE AS to update the current Project. That's what SAVE is for. SAVE AS is making a copy of the current project and either overwriting it to the one in the internal memory or to the one on the USB key. SAVE AS is used to create a copy of a project.

When you work on the "G" you have options on how to save your work and manage your workflow. If you are like me, I tend to name everything (because I'm totally OCD) while I work. So when I create a phrase or new sample, I'm writing those to the project file as I work. Same with my Studio Sets and Songs. The Save is used for when you have created a bunch of phrases and samples that you haven't saved or named. Save will collect everything and Save it to the Project File. Obviously things like patches, live sets and studio sets need to be saved independently. (There is a cool trick in the Fantom-G where you can edit patches in a studio set, save the studio set AND not the patch edits and still be able to recall the edited unsaved patches. It's cool.)

I'm not sure what country you are in, but I've been using the same Geek Squad 8GB drive since Version 1.20 without a problem.

Hope some of this info helps. I don't a definitive answer on what USB drives to purchase. All I can vouch for is the US market and what's carried in electronic or music stores here.



img]http://www.555concepts.com/dkrisher_8.gif[/img]

http://www.youtube.com/DanKrisher

http://www.twitter.com/DanFromRoland
Daily Fantom/Juno News & Videos exclusively at Dan Krisher on