Memory confusion

I've only had my FANTOM G6 for a couple of months. but - Yeah, I had problems at first understanding the way the it saves things. I was coming from an XP-80 which was pretty simple and straight forward.

I use the keyboard mostly for songwriting and creating demo songs to send to publishers - I don't really use it for live performance etc, so your needs may be different.

Anyway, here are some things I have learned and some Do's and Don'ts about saving things on the FANTOM.

When you turn on/Bootup the FANTOM

1 If you have a working USB Stick plugged into the back, the FANTOM will always load the last Project you were using. I believe this IS in the manual.
2. If that project is not on the USB Stick, it will look for and load the FantomG001.prj.
3 If the USB stick doesn't have FantomG001.prj file on it, or you are using a blank USB Stick that has been formatted using the FANTOM, the FANTOM will create an empty, default FantomG001.prj.

Rule #1 - DO NOT EVER - do a >SYSTEM >SAVE anything. I contacted ROLAND tech support on this one and they also told me "We recomend that nobody ever uses the >SYSTEM >SAVE option for anything - only use the "SAVE AS".

My problem was, I would create several songs, save them, then save project, my thinking was that I needed to save all the changes and newly created tracks etc. However, then when I would take the USB Stick to the computer to copy over the songs for backup - All my SONGS and WORK were gone - except the last song I saved.

Came to find out whenever you backup a project, If you don't rename project, which would be a dumb thing to do if you want several songs on one project, seeing as how you can't move songs between projects, the FANTOM automatically writes over the exisisting Project earasing everything but the last song you currently had loaded in the FANTOM.

Nowhere on the keyboard or in any manual does It warn or tell you that it is about to overwrite/delete all the songs and other information that currently exist in a project - it just does it!

Nowhere that I can find do any of the manuals tell you, but whenever you save a SONG, the FANTOM automatically saves NOT ONLY the SONG but the PERFOMANCE DATA/CHANGES, MIDI TRACKS, AUDIO TRACKS and OTHER things to the USB Stick, not the Keyboard. I don't really see a need to ever "SAVE AS" a project since all the information (even performance data) is saved when you save the song.

- You can "SAVE AS" more than One Project to a USB stick if you want to but always rename the project.
- Remember - when/if you do "SAVE AS" a project, that project (no matter if you overwrite an existing one or rename it) the new project will only contain the one song you were working on at the time - not all the songs that were in the project you were working with.
- You can save more song to the project you already have loaded, or reload a project later and save more songs to the project - just don't ever overwrite or SAVE AS the project again - Not if you want several songs on the project
- I normally just save the song and that saves the songs, tracks, settings and things to the USB stick in that project - keeping your other songs and settings intact.

To avoid problems, I've really simplified the way I work.

- I never SYTEM - "SAVE" or "SAVE AS" anything
- Unless I'm backing up a project to the computer, I always leave the USB Stick in the FANTOM.
- I never overwrite or Save As a project. Don't find this necessary since all the information is saved to USB when I save the Song.
- I never use more than one PROJECT per USB stick. This isn't really necessary. You can store more than one project on a USB stick. I just find it easier and staying with one project and holds down the chance of anything going wrong.
- I always keep a current copy of my PROJECT backed up on the computer. I convert the project and it's associated files into a ZIP file and then name the ZIP file whatever I want.
- Of coarse while you are creating a SONG, you will need to individually save things like MIDI TRACKS and/or SAMPLE/AUDIO tracks - and when finished with a SONG you need to save the SONG, but when you save the SONG it automatically saves the realted tracks/samples, performance data, etc to the USB stick. You don't need to do any further Saves.

Hope this helps - Jim

jsimons:

- Remember - when/if you do "SAVE AS" a project, that project (no matter if you overwrite an existing one or rename it) the new project will only contain the one song you were working on at the time - not all the songs that were in the project you were working with.

Absolutely wrong. Selecting the "Project -> Save As" command, you essentially make an exact copy of all the content that resides into your current project, whether it contains one song, or 50, whether it contains no samples/audio tracks or all 2000 slots.

This procedure even saves unwritten samples, i.e. samples that were created but weren't saved into memory.
With the "Project -> Save As" command you can save all your work in a new project folder and go on from there.

Thanks to both of you for the information and also the clarification/correction.

However, I'm having a hard time trusting memory on my FG right now because there doesn't seem to be much reliability about the content that gets saved and recalled.

After saving the v1.30 content as a project to the USB memory, I'm finding that it doesn't always reload consistently.

For example, playing back the first of the built-in songs - 'In My World' - it's immediately apparent that content has been mixed up, as drum kits and instrument patches have changed without me making any such modifications.

And looking in the Phrase List, I see that a number of the 900+ original phrases have failed to stay in place and are now just blanks - ie, "INIT PHRASE".

This is happening with projects saved on a brand new USB memory stick (Lexar), which I bought after experiencing similar problems with the one I previously used (Kingston - yes, the same ones that Roland recommend and sell with their own branding).

As I've said - probably dozens of times - before, every time that we have to use a new USB stick with our Fantom-G, we test it for compatibility BEFORE USING IT WITH OUR OWN DATA. Otherwise there is a risk of losing precious work.

I'm not losing work. Just the default 1.30 stuff.

So I guess testing it is what I'm actually doing now. Therefore, it seems likely that the Lexar is not compatible.

But the Kingston USB stick is one of the recommended models.

I don't know, I tend to not trust Kingston sticks with my Fantom-G any more.
I've been using a Sony Micro Vault 8GB for quite a while and I have never had any problems really.

Sorry, I can't help with the problem you seem to be experiencing, but do you really need the V 1.30 demo songs, samples, etc? They were worthless for my needs and the first things I deleted in order to save memory.

I will suggest this however. After loading V 1.30, try doing a factory reset. Turn the Fantom off, then back on again and let everything reload - then see if everything is ok or not. I've heard this often helps with many problems.

If you don't really need the V 1.30 songs, samples, etc, go ahead and create a few dummy songs, save them and see if they load back up correctly. Works ok for me, except effects settings, which don't usually load back up the same way I had them when I saved the SONG.

=========================

As for Cyclops comment about the previous information I gave you concerning "SAVE AS" project being wrong. This is what he said -

"Absolutely wrong. Selecting the "Project -> Save As" command, you essentially make an exact copy of all the content that resides into your current project, whether it contains one song, or 50, whether it contains no samples/audio tracks or all 2000 slots. "

He is wrong in ONE respect. Whenever you do a "SAVE AS" whether you rename the project or overwrite the existing one, it will delete the SONGS you previously had saved to the project. It might save the samples and tracks - but you don't really know which ones are which and the songs you previously created and saved will be gone - at least it works this way on my Fantom G6

Don't take my word for it - test it yourself as I just did - again right now.

1. Create several songs and save them. But don't save the project - just the songs.
2. Take the USB Stick to your computer
3. Copy the project to your computer
4. Look under "ProjectName".prj > SEQ > SNG
5. You sould see all the SONGS you created and saved
6. Now put the USB stick back in the Fantom
7. Load the project
3. Do a "SAVE AS" project - doesn't matter whether you rename the project or overwrite the existing one.
3. Now take the USB stick back to your computer
4. Compare the project on the USB with the one on your computer.
5. Look under "ProjectName".prj > SEQ > SNG and you will see it DID NOT copy ANY of the SONGS to the new project.
6. There will be only one SONG in the new project. It will be the song you currently had loaded at the time - or - if you had no song loaded, it will contain only INITSONG.SVA and INITSONG.SVQ files.

I know things can be confusing on the Fantom, but it really is a great keyboard. Hope you find the answer.

Jim

I don't need the v1.30 songs. Nor the 70+ samples associated with them.

But I do find it useful to have the 900+ built-in phrases and the studio set templates available, as a convenient way of working out basic song ideas.

jsimons:

1. Create several songs and save them. But don't save the project - just the songs.
2. Take the USB Stick to your computer
3. Copy the project to your computer
4. Look under "ProjectName".prj > SEQ > SNG
5. You sould see all the SONGS you created and saved
6. Now put the USB stick back in the Fantom
7. Load the project
3. Do a "SAVE AS" project - doesn't matter whether you rename the project or overwrite the existing one.
3. Now take the USB stick back to your computer
4. Compare the project on the USB with the one on your computer.
5. Look under "ProjectName".prj > SEQ > SNG and you will see it DID NOT copy ANY of the SONGS to the new project.
6. There will be only one SONG in the new project. It will be the song you currently had loaded at the time - or - if you had no song loaded, it will contain only INITSONG.SVA and INITSONG.SVQ files.

I don't know if can anyone confirm this but I can't reproduce it. It is really serious, but it doesn't happen to me. I save several songs to each projects I make, and I've tried some times to save as new projects. But no missing songs at all.

Maybe someone could check this too and confirm it or not.

could it be the upgrade path ? Did everyone of you upgrade to v1.30 in the same way ? Maybe that's a small bug related to that...
The behavior comradec is describing doesn't make sense. Unfortunately I can't reproduce it myself as I don't have a FG

I don't think it's my experience that cyclops is trying to reproduce, but rather that described by jsimons.

I've just bought a new Kingston Data Traveler 4GB USB memory stick and initial tests seem to be going okay, in that it appears to be maintaining the integrity of sample data.

Changed my mind. The Kingston Data Traveler 4GB is not so reliable after all.

Each time I boot the FG with a project that's been saved on the memory stick, it comes back with some sample or song data missing.

The first time it went okay but repeat tests produced errors. A sample missing here and there out of the 74 provided with v1.30, or one of the built-in songs missing.

This is an expensive business finding USB memory that works, even if I buy according to the list of tested products provided in the sticky thread here.

comradec,

About USB sticks, I don't think the ones I use are on the member approved list, but I have been using PNY 2GB USB sticks (3 pack) from Best Buy. They aren't very expensive but I haven't noticed any problems with loading, saving or restoring any projects, songs, midi, audio tracks or samples that I have personally created. (as long as I follow the proceedure I specified above). Also, I don't need a huge capacity USB stick since I backup everything to computer anyway and the smaller capacity USB sticks are cheaper.

I can't say I've had the same problem you are having, because like I said, I didn't try to keep any of the V 1.30 demo songs and stuff. However, I did screw up when I first got the Fantom G - it was at V 1.0.3. Not knowing any better, I loaded the V 1.30 update and then also loaded the FGPrjojcts on top of it. (I didn't realize this wasn't necessary because FGProjects is already a part of V 1.30). Doing this however, did cause me some problems.

So I did this:

I did a factory reset, then reloaded V 1.30 update - then did another factory reset. You might try that and see if it fixes your problem. If you still have the problem of song and samples missing or not loading, then I would tend to think maybe your Fantom has a problem.

The store I bought mine from had a 30 day retrun / exchange policy. You might want to see if you can take it back and exchange it for a different one.

It seems a like a lot of people are having strange problems with their Fantoms. From cylops comments - I'm beginning to think maybe mine has a problem too (but my 30 day return policy has expired and I think I can live with the problems I have). Maybe Roland will fix them in a future update.

I have been a ROLAND fan for about 25 years now. I started with an Ensoniq ESQ1 but quickly changed to ROLAND XP-50, XP-80 and now the Fantom G6. Like any other electronic device, none of them are perfect or without a problem now and then.

I think the Fantom G is still a fairly new product and may still be a little flaky. It seems to work flawlessly for some people, but not for others. I can say however, I believe the Fantom G is still the best keyboard for composer/arrangers (for the money) and if you can fix or work around it's eccentricities, it will serve you well. Hopefully ROLAND will get the bugs worked out in future updates.

Jim

Hi Jim.

Whilst I value the 900+ phrases it includes, the v1.30 sample/song content is only important to me as a testing ground for USB memory sticks. If the Fantom-G can't load the default project from USB memory during booting without losing several of the 74 v1.30 samples and a song or two during the process, then it suggests that there's something wrong - either with the USB memory or with the FG itself. So my concern to keep that content is technical, not musical. I'm not going to trust it with valuable, original material that I've spent ages working on if it can't save the basic stuff already built-in.

I've owned my FG6 for about half a year, but the last week has provided my first sustained opportunity to master its sampling functions. And that's where I've come unstuck. Not with understanding how to use the sampler - it's now apparent to me that it's pretty much the same as the SP-606 I used to own - but rather I keep finding that samples and songs I've saved are missing the next time I boot the FG6.

Up to now I'd been using an 8GB Kingston Data Traveler 100 memory stick - the same brand as Roland have re-labelled for their own memory product and a model specifically listed as tested in the sticky thread elsewhere in this forum. The Kingston stick seemed to work okay, but I hadn't been doing any serious sampling until the last few days, so my confidence may have been misplaced. I'd also been largely working with the internal memory, not the USB, simply because my lack of sampling activity and the v1.20 OS I'd been using meant I didn't need it.

Increased sampling work meant I needed to use the USB memory, which is how I discovered that songs and sample content I'd been experimenting with sometimes went missing when I loaded a project where these had been saved. And then there was an incident where quite a lot of stuff disappeared and the FG6's sound engine came out extremely distorted.

In the last couple of days I've found that 4GB version of the Kingston Data Traveler doesn't work reliably either (which is on the list of recommended sticks). And an 8GB Lexar JumpDrive FireFly (not on the list) also doesn't appear to do the job. Then today I've tried a brand new 4GB Transcend JetFlash, which is on the sticky thread list, and it's had problems too.

Finally, I've tried a year-old SanDisk Cruzer Micro 8GB U3, which I had been using for other non-music data, and so far it does appear to be working successfully. I've tied it several times now and the v1.30 content seems to be surviving intact.

I'll report back if there are any further issues or I'm confident that the latest memory stick is a good 'un. If the Cruzer is definitely compatible, I'll obviously go buy myself a couple more.