Multisampling and Juno G

The workaround is to use rhythm kits, but there is much more work and time related to this than a normal person would wish to spend. And no, those software apps won't do that for you.

So I'm a software engineer... I might be able to build a tool that makes this process easier... someone would have to explain to me in a bit of detail how to do it though.

I understand that the rhythm kits let you assign a sample to each key, so I'm guessing that's the basis for it... can rhythm kit building and sample assignment be done through sysex commands?

can rhythm kit building and sample assignment be done through sysex commands?

Yes, SysEx controls everything on the Juno-G's sound engine.

When you use this work around, how do you get the velocity based layering/triggering that you normally have with multisampled libraries? Is that possible, or can you only have one sample per key with no layer triggering?

Also, does anybody know where I can find like an AKAI multisample set to experiment with for building a tool?

Yes, each key can have up to 4 velocity layers.

So if I were to do this by hand, what would be the steps? Once I know how it would be done by hand, if it holds true that I can do the same stuff with sysex, I'm sure I can build a tool that will automate the whole process from an existing multisample library like an AKAI disc.

You need to assign a sample to each key, that's done in the Wave tab of the patch editor, then adjust the TVA envelope so it plays as an instrument (adjust attach, decay, sustain, release). You need to do this for each key. Since multisampled usually come sampled at 2 or 3 notes per octave, you need to duplicate keys and adjust pitches accordingly to lay it all out chromatically.

That's quite some work. Are you sure you do not want to get a Fantom-Xa or X6? I think you will save more time and money, really.

Thanks for the explanation. I'll dig into it a bit once I find a cheap set of samples to mess with.

If I can write something that does all that work automatically, then I can share it with everyone, and we all reap the benefits. It's not necessarily about whether it makes sense for me as an individual (open source projects rarely do make sense for the individual), but more about making the Juno G a better instrument for everyone.

It's already got tons going for it; it's a great synth for the price. If we can push the envelope around the edges, it becomes just that much more valuable.

Hey, one more thing... what about the velocity layering? How do you do that part?

It's not so bad. I did that insane 3-hour-work with AKAI pianos and the results were OK, but then a friend of mine sampled a Kurzweil and did the patch. All I needed was to download the samples and run the patch. That's my main piano today.

No one replied to my message.... does anybody know how to do the velocity mapping on a multisample set on Juno G? I've looked into building a rhythm kit, but I'm not sure I understand how to do velocity mapping in a rhythm kit. From what I can tell it's one key, one sample, no exceptions, but maybe I'm missing something.

Actually, it seems like maybe page 54 of the owners manual sort of hints and how you could stack 4 tones (samples) on top of each other with separate velocity ranges, but it's a bit too technical to make much sense out of it.... anybody got any ideas?

Why can't people who create owners manuals do it from the perspective of someone actually trying to use the product instead of from an engineers' perspective? It's not just Roland... everything is like this...

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Ok everybody... I've been experimenting with multisampling using the Rhythm Sets... after spending hours upon hours digging through Sysex commands, tweaking code, finding errors in the midi implementation charts, figuring out alternatives, and figuring out which of the Juno's processes are exposed as Sysex and which aren't, I've got a prototype app working....

Basically it brings up a clickable image of a keyboard on your PC... you can attach samples (AIF or WAV) one at a time, or you can import a whole collection (if they're named properly)... It will also pitch scale for missing samples if you like. This process creates a set of files properly named for import. Then you stick your Juno's PC Card into your PC and select "Load PC Card"... After the card is loaded up, you pop it in your Juno G, run the import process, and then navigate to the Card Rhythm sets. Then you click a button in the tool, and it streams a bunch of Sysex data to map the imported samples to the Rhythm set (takes about 5 seconds -- way faster than doing it manually, which takes hours)... finally click "Write" on your Juno to write the Rhythm Set to your card and voila... multisampled patch (technically a Rhythm Set)... I've got a Steinway piano I've been messing with.... sounds pretty good.

This thing isn't ready for public consumption yet, I've probably got a couple weeks of refactoring to do, but I did want to share the good news that it _is_ quite possible to use up your Juno G as a multisampler, with a little software help.

Now, what I'd REALLY like to see would be Roland to do something even more seemless than this thing I've designed. It's ok, but it sure would be nice to be able to do this in one step. The stumbling block seems to be that you can't initiate a sample import through sysex, and you're not allowed to write samples directly onto the card in the samples directory. It seems that the import process can only be done from the control surface -- no sysex. If someone can find an alternative, I'd love to know about it.

I'll try to get something for public consumption put together in the next few weeks. Any volunteers for alpha/beta testers?
(It's Windows code... sorry Mac guys... I don't know how to code for a Mac.)

I will test...