Fantom-G

How the Fantom-G sequencer works

How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 16:35
Hello all!

As promised, I am posting the information about the undo history in the Fantom-G's sequencer.

When you record anything into a MIDI track, it is not recorded as a plain track like in all previous Fantoms. It is recorded as a phrase that is automatically inserted into the sequencer. After you have recorded several tracks, you have them in the sequencer, but can also access them as phrases, so no need to do "copy to pattern" if you want to assign phrases to the pads via RPS.

Now, there is a useful "track clear" function in the menu, which quickly clears what you have in the current track. But it only deletes the reference to the phrase that is in the track, so the track is clear but the phrase is still there in the phrase list. If you have several takes, all these takes are kept there: you can select and insert the best one and perfect it via the microscope edit mode.

When you save the song, all used phrases are saved with it of course. What happens to all the unused phrases? If you do not save them manually, they will be emptied when you power the unit off. This means that you do not have to clear all those hundreds of bad takes yourself, all is kept clean.

If you perform a copy operation on a phrase, it will not copy the note events but just put another instance of that phrase. This means, should you make some corrections to the original, all it's copies will update accordingly, which will save many of us tons of time.

So, that's how it works on the Fantom-G and I think this approach is simply terrific. It will definitely help all of those who will work on the G to get all the previous recording pain away and shorten the distance from the idea to it's realisation. Great work, Roland!

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 16:48
almost sounds like virtual tracks like on the vs recorders..interesting...artimey...have you played with other synths like the xs or m3?..if i was in your position i couldnt help but mess around with my competition to see how it differs...

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 16:55
I recieved this reply on the motif list when i asked about track based or pattern based squencing on the xs...and i wonder if rolands seq..is similar? thanx

I am not sure what you mean about "track based" vs "part based", so I hope my answer makes sense:

The XS sequencer has 16 tracks, and it works much like software midi sequencer I have used (i.e. linear). But the XS also has a pattern sequencer that has 16 tracks. With this sequencer, you specify how many measures in length you want the pattern to be. There are jobs to move a pattern to a song (the linear sequencer) and from a song to a pattern. For each track in either, you assign the sound you want for that track.

There is no step editor (at least as of v1.07 FW), but there is a midi event editor (what Roland calls their "microscope" editor), both are very nice. Though I always thought I needed a step editor, I am finding I don't miss it because the results always sound really "wooden" and you have to go back and do a lot of subtle time editing to get it to sound musical. I think it is easier to just play the part really slowly instead, and then speed it up if necessary.

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:11
MadaHorn: it's four clicks, but still very quick: Song Utility -> Track Clear -> Enter -> OK.

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:23
just curious Art,how many tracks can you have in a phrase do you combine tracks to make phrase.I guess iam thinking about how the X works.you can record 16trks in pattern mode then asighn that one pattern to a pad or key.is it the same with the G.

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:30
lelo, I am not sure at this moment, but I think yes, each phrase should hold 16 MIDI channels as before.

Oh, by the way, there are up to 50 songs and 2000 phrases per project.

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:31
I feel I would be working more in the loop rec mix mode using erase to delete unwanted notes.. or then just re-rec and overwrite
Jesse J / The Fantom G Facebook group - Please join!

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:47
Thanks Art, Iam a pattern base person and i use Rps alot,so this is still good news for those of us who like useing RPS.I just cant wait to get my hands on the G, i think its going to be
everything i need.I want to start learning how to chop up samples and making drum kits and other sounds with the G.

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 17:53
Sorry to swim against the stream once more.

I don't like the idea of phrase/pattern based sequencing, and I guess that it will cause some confusion among all those used to common software sequencer standards, like me. Pattern based sequencing is not bad by itself and has advantages and disadvantages like track based sequencing. But it is totally uncommon as basic way of sequencing in the big sequencers (Cubase, Logic, etc.), and I regard it as much more prone to confusion, than track based sequencing. This all the more, as Roland G users constantly have to switch between their imagination of both kinds of sequencing: the G shows them tracks while in fact using patterns/phrases. I will give it a fair try in everyday use, but I am sceptical if this concept helps me with my projects, and really integrates smoothly with carrying them over to advanced software sequencing as soon as I leave the sketch phase.


And beyond the mere technical aspect of the G sequencer, phrase based music also carries - consciously or unconsciously - certain fundamental life views from my understanding. And I dislike this phrase concept, because I consider it as antimusical in a certain way: it strenghtens the kind of music making consisting of putting often more or less meaningless sound and idea snippets together, instead of helping to keep the overall concept of a project, the overall musical 'idea/s' of a song or piece of music in mind, in inner imagination.

You may laugh about that, but mere phrase music is no music in any deeper sense to me, no matter how long the mass music industry tries to make a living from that kind of 'postmodern entertaining phrase by phrase emptiness'...

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 18:36
Jimknopf, you can record a phrase that is a 17 minutes long, no-one tells you have to loop 2 bars and make mass music. Phrases where here long before computers were invented. long before music industry. Long before human kind. Birds sing phrases, whales sing phrases deep in the oceans.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/40030.php
Jesse J / The Fantom G Facebook group - Please join!

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 18:38
Jim...I am trying to understand your post...I get really confused with sequencing terms...and usually have done a track and overdub onto that one in realtime..To me i try to stay as musical as possible and not chop things up and put them together in the end...If this explanation sounds silly its because I am way less of a technical person and more of a musician..so of course my choice of sequencing in a workstation and workflow ease should go along with my simplistic nature...so to say....My music isnt rap type oriented with breakbeats repeating and such...although this to me is easy to do(like pressing 1 keys on a synth and letting the arps run the show..) and those long hip hop or kitaro kinda songs that never end thing is not my style but sometimes fun to doodle with....I am more a songwriter who needs to be able to put his ideas down simply and without having to refer to the manual much if not at all....so i am new to this sequencing on a workstation..and i am heavily looking at the g or the xs..thanx

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 19:02
I guess I have to *use* the new concept a while to see if it works without problems for me or not.

What I hope to avoid is
- a) losing overview over the phrases/patterns in relation to tracks
- b) getting mixed channel data all over the place with the result of losing control over what happens on each track, and having to microedit afterwards to find possible sources of trouble in channel data spread over phrases in various tracks. To me the fixed relation of channel and track (plus track variation if required) has been helpful in organizing things properly
c) getting confusion in editing: copying, deleting or whatever, now what? Track data, or channel data, or multiple channel phrase data, with which consequences? I still can't imagine it in real use...

I will check the G system without prejudice. It's still a bit abstract to imagine just by reading the manual. If I worried in vain I will gladly concede that...

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 19:16
A phrase in Fantom-G seems to be a Roland name for a midi clip (multichannel at that). When recording new phrases are added to a phrase pool. Then they can be reused, edited and eventually saved. So yes it's more convenient than recording and then discarding them with undo. But what about editing functions like copy or microscope?
Hard On!

Re: How the Fantom-G sequencer works

21 Apr 2008, 19:27
this sounds similar to the motif xs style of sequencer as well..i think..

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