Patch sounds in preview mode

Thread was moved to "Fantom-S, Fantom-X, Juno-G".

And yes, the solution to your problem is described in the FAQ:
http://rolandclan.info/media/documents/en/fantom/Fantomized-FAQ.html#entry3.1

Artemio, it seems from that FAQ that you can only route all of the patch to an effect or none of it, correct? With a patch, you can take any of the 4 tone and route them separately but in performance mode it appears that all 4 tones of one Part are routed to the same place. I guess I could split a patch into two or more parts if I want to only have some of the tones go to the MFX. Is there any other way to accomplish this?

Correct, setting the send to "MFX1" (or 2/3) will route all four tones bypassing the settings from the patch. However, yes, it's possible to inherit the tone routings from the patch. In the MFX routing screen, set the routing to "PAT1" (or 2/3) - this will mean, literally, "route to MFX1 and inherit routings from the patch".

Thank you Artemio. I always wondered about this as I always assign to MFX1 (or 2 or 3 as the case may be) but I knew that the patch didn't necessarily route all tones to the MFX. The manual didnt help me with this as all it says is "The part’s output destination is determined by the
settings of the patch or rhythm set assigned to the
part." This is set out on page 210.

In the FAQ then when you say to route it to an MFX and then assign the MFX properly, should it also add the note that using PAT:1, 2 or 3, will also inherit routings from the patch?

Finally, does setting it to Pat:x does it also inherit the routing to chorus and reverb or just whether it goes to the assigned MFX or not?

Yes, the FAQ needs to be updated in this respect.

does setting it to Pat:x does it also inherit the routing to chorus and reverb

Yes, chorus and reverb sends are inherited too.

That is excellent. I am often frustrated in that I would like to have different levels of sends to the chorus and reverb for different Parts in a Performance. Thanks for clarifying this, Artemio.

Thnks for the quick respose.

Wow, Artemio, this adds a whole new light to the use of effects in performances. Also HowardS your questions were extremely helpful as well.

Although it does open up another bag of worms.

Does this mean that if I am in performance mode and I bring up a list of patches and preview them , might they sound different each time depending on the effects setting of a given performance?

Also since there are only 3 mfx modes at most, can I only layer 3 patches using their designed effects settings by setting them to Pat 1, 2 or 3 etc.
Fogg

Hi Fogg,

You are right that you have to get the effects to match the MFX every time you assign a patch to a Part in a Performance. I think that at this point all the workstations work the same way so....it is perhaps something we just have to work with.

You are also correct in that there are only 3 MFX so only those 3 can be set up. If you want 4 or more layers you are still left with a maximum of 3 MFX settings. But, you will find many threads on this forum on how to get creative surrounding this issue. For one thing, I find that I dont need effects on every layer. You can also sample the sound with the effect and then create a new patch based on the sample. Do some searches through the forum and also have a look at Artemio's Fantom Tweakbook. It has a section dedicated to sampling and creating further patches.

You can also send a sound out separately without any effect on it and route it to an external effects unit such as a wah wah pedal.

It would be great to have 16 MFX's but everything costs in terms of processing power and of course....money.

Howard

HI Fogg,

a fantom 88 must be a top machine. (I'm assuming you meant and x8)

yes you can only have 3 mfx in a performance or song and yes ifyou are listening in perfromance mode then the patches will sound different unless you have the reverb chorus ticked and pat 1,2,3.

Having said that you can use one mfx on all 16 channels if you want. I do that occassionaly with great results. Not 16 channels but on more the same mfx on more than one track.

The other thing I do is use my mfx for cosm guitar, or any other focal instrument but leave it off drums, bass and most of the time my background pads. It is not often I need more than that because too much mfx muddies the mix. It is better to have straight clear sounds in the background.

Hope that helps.

Yep Fantom X8 is what I meant. I sometimes get hung up with the idea of 88 keys to play and that slips out when I describe my KBD.

I want to thank all who have responded to this question. It has moved me along faster on this effects issue than anyone can imagine. I 'm gaining greater respect for the X8 all the time.

The original question started because I wanted to compare the SRX11 card with the X8 piano and now as far as I can hear, they are identical. I don't know about the other tweaks that may be on the SRX11 ultimate piano card but I can now make the conclusion they discontinued this card because it did not have enough different over the x8 built in piano.
Thanks again to all.

Fogg

Fogg, I've got an X8 with the SRX-11 installed and I play thru a pair of Event studio monitors. If you cannot hear a clear and distinct difference between the X8's Ultimate Grand patch and the SRX-11's Superb Grand patch there must be something wrong with your ears or your audio setup. The 42 patches in the SRX-11 are all significantly different from anything in the stock X8 and all are based on brand new waveforms.

Check out the side-by-side comparison I did in this thread: http://forums.rolandclan.info/index.php?action=show_thread&thread=18934&fid=9&page=1

And as far as the SRX-11 being discontinued, NexTag found 6 retailers with it in stock (including Sam Ash, zZounds, and SameDayMusic. Check it out at: http://www.nextag.com/Roland-SRX11-76954710/prices-html Heck, even Sweetwater's website says it's in stock, http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SRX11

Just because Guitar Center/Musicians Friend stopped carrying it dosen't mean that it is discontinued.

Thanks for the vote of confidence you have in the SRX11. It make me take a much harder look at my midi file that I was using for testing the sounds. I use Roland DS7 studio monitors and run them with digital output from the X8. I have the Srx02 concert piano card installed in my X8 as well and tested it also. There really wasn't much difference in sound quality at normal listening volumes but I could see how you might feel the Superb Grand patch may be slightly better.

I made another midi file just to test notes at what I percieved would be the various volume sampling zones and set the volumes of some sounds in each of 4 zones. Overall when you listen to them in the different zones, I would agree the Superb Grand patch overall is the best.

I may not be setting up my testing right, but I am using the suggestion of Artemio by setting the Effects equal to PAT and then simply changing the patch itself. Thanks for your input.