NEVER AGAIN A JUPITER

I have a studio adagium: "Never buy an instrument for what it can do in the future, buy an instrument for what it can do now!".
That prevented from a lot of disappointment and frustration.

I don't know exactly what you mean with empty slots.
I can only think of the empty spaces where you can store your own Registrations, Livesets and Tones and I think it is great Roland provided us with so much space to store your own creations.

The only valid point you have in my opinion is about the app.
I think Roland abandoned it quickly.
For me that is not a problem.
I hardly used the app at all, because of the good interface of the JP-80, but I can understand that may be different with a JP-50.

I think software is the weak link in any hardware synthesizer.
Sooner or later companies stop updating and supporting their software.
The only way I can edit my Yamaha CS6-X and PLG150-AN is with the Windows XP laptop I keep for this purpose.
Instruments like the VariOS, Yamaha DX-200, Korg Micro-X, Use Audio Plugiator, Clavia Nord Modular G2 had the same problem.
So the lesson I learned of this that I don't buy any gear that heavily relies on software for editing.
An instrument must have the ability to be controlled with the instrument itself, with at most, a minor supportive role for software.

With this lesson in mind I bought the Jupiter-80 and it still is the heart of my studio.
With this lesson in mind I think the Jupiter-X could be a great addition to my setup.

Tom_1970 wrote:

I have a studio adagium: "Never buy an instrument for what it can do in the future, buy an instrument for what it can do now!".
That prevented from a lot of disappointment and frustration.

This is the only sensible way to buy hardware. Applies to software too.

Mahobe wrote:

I was caught by Roland with the Jupiter 50. Just trusted the brand as with my previous 5 synths. My mistake. I am happy that they released these new JP because they give me the opportunity to tell others my experience 8 years ago. Same marketing tricks than now. Just don’t trust them. Those who bought JP 50and 80 are still waiting for the keyboard to be finished. It came with empty slots which have a title and no sounds on them. They released synth legends vol 1, as if it was the first of many, or at least two. It never happened. They quickly discontinued sound packs, despite they kept producing sound packs for cheaper and older keyboards like Gaia. Despite the unanimous claim for a librarian, which had been pretty easy for them and had seriously expanded possibilities, they remained silent. People were begging for it. They just did not care. And something I will never forget nor forgive: they discontinued the iPad app. It was one of the drivers for which I bought the keyboard, but they just did not update it anymore. A LOT of functionality was lost because of this unilateral decision. If you have something newer than an IPad 2, you are out. Was that complicated to keep updating the app for new iPads? Really? These boards were priced at 2000 and 40000 USD when they came out. Nothing cheap at all. So this is what you guys can expect a couple of years from now if you buy this one or the xm. Just don’t do it. It made me really sad. I even tried to convince myself and wrote good things about the board. It does sound nice and is inspiring sometimes. But in the balance I would not buy it again if I knew all this. Just move away from these and go to a real analog with good customer service and support.

I had the Jupiter-80 and 50 and sold them about 5 or six months ago. They were decent performance keyboards. They had really nice keybeds and the Jupiter-80 had a great responsive aftertouch feel.

My decision to buy them was not based on anything other than what they were.
I was not looking for,nor remember being promised, a librarian, or more sound expansions. Would have been nice but that was not the selling point of the instruments. I was a bit lured in by their Jupiter-8 aesthetics (Like I am with the Jupiter-X) but I knew basically what they were and what they were capable of. I did not get the Jupiter-80 until after version 2 came out adding three more filters (JP-8, Moog, Prophet 5). My biggest beef was the Supernatual Synth Engine. It was weak at recreating analog emulations of classic synths. I was not able to create the many patches from my Juno-106/60 and JX-3p. When Roland released the System-8 and Boutiques I was happily able to recreate those analog patches pretty well. Also the Aliasing was horrible when using Pulse width Modulation. It was unacceptable and I grew to despise the Supernatural synth engine which was really nothing more than a ported over Gaia synth structure at its basic level. Also the ALL of waveforms on the Jupiter-80 were sampled based no actual modeling of anykind which I believe was the main culprit in the aliasing issues..

I loved the Supernatural acoustic sounds on the Jupiter-80/50 but I wished I could have edited them a bit more with the synth sounds all you could really do is edit limited characteristics of each acoustic instruments sound.

About Synth Legends, it was a flop. The Jupiter-80 was not capable of emulating decent recreations of most of the synth patches (just some pretty basic stuff) they boasted in their (awful) video demos side by side comparison.

The Jupiter-80/50 were great at producing many layers. It was a great pad machine and excelled at digital synth sounds.

I used and I still have the JP Editor app sitting on my iPad3. It was not that great. I used mine in Ad-Hoc mode wirelessly.

I am not negative on Roland at all over the Jupiter-80/50. I do not miss the Jupiter-80/50 nor their long size (not really a fan of 76 keys). I believe I sold them at the right time. I used them primarily for performances while leaving my old classic synths safely at home.

The Jupiter-X appears to be more faithful at recreating Roland classic analog synths while being able to emulate acoustic sounds by utilizing PCM sounds. I want a synth that can do analog sounds and beyond.
I DO NOT want strictly analog sounds. They are great but in and of themselves not very versatile in a performance synth.

It appears the new Jupiter-X will be an amalgamation of technologies.

Looks like Roland was aware of the criticisms over the Jupiter-80/50 and addressed many issues.

I am ready to re-visit Jupiter.

Different strokes for different folks...

I love the JU 80 and thats why I still have it. Bought it as soon as it was shipping. It does all that I have asked for it. I still have ot even mastered it and i still find new things to this day. It works for me in my productions. I also bought it for what it was and didn’t expect anything else as it felt “finished” for me.

But again, to each his or her own. I’m not a full time synth player so my experience will possibly be in the minority compared to other pro users here...

I just bought the F8 and will get the Jupiter X. It’s a no brainer for me.

The Jupiter 80 has always felt like a finished product to me. Yes, they could have improved some things and added some other things, but that applies to every product. And unlike some products, this synth is not broken. All advertised features work.

I use the Jupiter 80 when I just want to sit down and play something, or practice something. It is superb for that with its excellent keys, split zones, vast variation of sounds and responsive interface. I even use the colored category buttons frequently. And I quickly record melodic ideas on the synth itself before I lose them. No computer involved.

I rarely build my own sounds on this synth. That exercise is more rewarding on other synths. However, I frequently layer and tweak existing sounds into new ones. The interface is excellent for that. This means I rarely stumble into many of the issues mentioned here. And the aliasing is almost a feature if you combine it with the on-board effects. I have discovered some cool distortions that way.

So using it for what it is, it’s an excellent synth.

You are right in saying that Roland has a history of making promises on future enhancements without ever committing to them. The same occurred with the V-synth. Only two extension cards were made for that, right from the start and then... nothing.
But that doesn't mean that the V-synth is worthless. Instead, it still is a very powerful machine that I really love and will never leave my studio.
I think the same goes for the JP80. Just ignore the Roland messages about the future.

Maybe I missed it, but did Roland make that much promises on the future of their instruments?

There was much support from the community for the wish of a librarian for the Jupiter-80, but I can't remember any promise or even comment on the side of Roland.
Same with the System-8. The only promise was the Juno plugout when the S8 was released and they fulfilled that.

I think a lot of the so called promises is just wishful thinking.
People (users) talk about their wishes, someones wish becomes a rumor and three topics later it's a promise.

I see the same on the Jupiter-X/Xm.
Someone on the FB group claims it has a stepsequencer(s) on board. A beta tester confims this, but from what I am reading I won't rule out that he doesn't fully understand the arpeggiator on the Jupiter-Xm.
Rumor is spread and when it turns out that it has no sequencer a lot of people will be annoyed, outraged and speak of empty promises.

Besides that I think there s also a difference between written statements and the talk of the demo guys.
I only take a 'promise' seriously if it's written on the factory site.

Ok, I am exaggerating a little bit, but in essence I think this is mostly the case.

Tom_1970 wrote:

Same with the System-8. The only promise was the Juno plugout when the S8 was released and they fulfilled that.

They also added a bunch of new oscillator types (including FM) and new filters to the System-8 engine, and the JX-3P plugout for the third slot. Plus you can download free patches from the System-8 page on the Aira site (and even better, click a button in your browser to directly send the patch to your System-8 without having to download or open a file…pretty cool).

Tom_1970 wrote:

I think a lot of the so called promises is just wishful thinking.
People (users) talk about their wishes, someones wish becomes a rumor and three topics later it's a promise.

Yes, this is part of the problem. Also, in the early presentations for expandable products, they will often say “and we can add more (sample sets/patches/plugouts/etc.) in the future”, which people take to mean “there will be a never ending supply of new stuff for this synth”.

Anyway, regardless of whether new features are promised, implied, or just on someone’s wish list, the smart move is always to buy things for what they do now and just be pleasantly surprised if/when it gets any updates.

I feel your pain OP and I understand what you mean about Roland. I wanted to buy the JUPITER 80 and heard about the lack of support from Roland but I still was impressed by what it could do and wanted to get my hands on one. Then out of no where it was discontinued over night. I ended up buying a Kronos instead and I feel no regrets for that as it is an outstanding Keyboard.

Now we are talking I think 2-3 years ago since the end of the Jupiter's reign with Roland. Time hasn't exactly been good to the keyboard because updates are what keeps them going. Kronos is King not just because it sounds good but because of it's sequencer, sampler, and endless sound packs for it. The Jupiter 80 had none of that.The keyboard was already behind on capabilities when it debuted. I paid around $3,300 for my Kronos 7 and got all of that and then some. While Roland wanted $4,000 for what's basically a super rompler. Meaning all you'd be playing were the stock sounds or variations of them because it won't be doing much else.

That type of Keyboard was just way too restrictive for folks but it's not like it ever presented itself as something other than that. You already out the gate were pretty much relying on Roland to support its future and Roland's support has always needed "improvement". They make stuff and just ditch it over night. When I look at Roland's gear now I say to myself "can I be satisfied with this as is?" Because we already know Roland isn't going to put but so much support into it.

I'm looking at the new FANTOM and already see similar mistakes as the Jupiter 80. But as always you know what you're getting yourself into when you buy this stuff it doesn't hide what it lacks. The new Jupiters are apples and oranges to the 50 & 80. The new ones are more in the lines of digital synthesizers in the traditional synth style than a Workstation like keyboard. It doesn't have the same needs or yearnings as it won't be pulling the same type of workload as the JP 80 and 50 did.

I'm sorry the Jupiter 80 was a let down for you and I am disappointed that Roland basically killed their own product by not providing updates for the features or sound packs to keep a limited keyboard going. You have every right to be upset about that when such simple things could breathe new life into the board. I like to think that Roland realized the Jupiter 80 was a mistake and pulled it off the market to do what they did now by making a Workstation Keyboard and a real Jupiter Synthesizer. I do realize now that had I actually gotten a Jupiter 80 I would have been dissatisfied with it and more so now that the Jupiter X has arrived. So yeah... sometimes you just gotta pick gear for what it is and not what it could be.

The Jupiter-80 is not a «limited keyboard» nor a «super rompler». It is a digital synth with a virtual analog synth engine where you can create a limitless amount of your own sounds. It also happens to have a lot of great samples (or models) of acoustic sounds, as well as a selection of PCM oscillators. You can’t add samples to it, but the same can be said for most other synths, unless they are workstations of some kind. The Jupiter-80 is not a workstation. If the Jupiter-80 is «limited» then so is basically all other synths out there.

After the somewhat failed Synth Legends sound pack, Roland released several other free Axial sound packs of higher quality. Many of these sounds I ended up using regularly and have built upon since.

Axial Jupiter-80 sounds

The big difference between these packs was that Synth Legends tried to emulate other synths, which the Jupiter-80 is not good at. However it can generate a lot of cool, useful sounds by itself as demonstrated by the Axial sound packs.

The Jupiter-80 vs the Kronos really is an apples vs oranges comparison. I’m on the other side of the fence. I did not like the Kronos at all. It was like using a slow computer with a tiny screen and a painful, tiny UI. I much prefer my laptop instead, which is way more powerful and flexible. I would not have been happy with a Kronos at all. The Jupiter-80, on the other hand is fast, intuitive and feels like a synth. Some like both synths. Some like neither.

The Jupiter X is much closer to the vision of the Jupiter-80 than to the Kronos. With knobs instead of a touch screen and better synth emulations (for a few selected synths) instead of acoustic emulations. If you did not like the Jupiter-80 at all, including its lifetime support, chances are that the Jupiter X will not work for you either.

kimsnarf wrote:

The Jupiter-80 vs the Kronos really is an apples vs oranges comparison.

My thoughts exactly!

Mind, I think the Kronos is a great instrument, but I didn't get 'connected' with its interface and the sound also didn't appeal to me.
On another forum there is someone who can do magic with a Kronos, so in the end It is just what you prefer.

But still....The Kronos is a extensive workstation, but the JP-80 for me is a synthesizer. It still begs me to be payed ant to make sounds.

kimsnarf wrote:

I did not like the Kronos at all. It was like using a slow computer with a tiny screen and a painful, tiny UI.

Exactly. The Kronos never felt like a musical instrument.