This is more like it!!!

I will rather buy another System-8 than this ZEN-Core stuff. Roland used the processor name and renamed Tones into Partials to hide the simple fact that this is just another JV/SuperNatural update running on AMD chips. smh
I already have a Fantom G6 and Integra 7. Why would I need to crap out money for the same stuff again, just because Roland wants to stay afloat. They never do what their customers really want. Otherwise they would do what Behringer is doing now. I love ACB and an ACB synth with 16 or 32 voices would have been dope, but instead they are gaslighting people again.
Same with Korg running a Trinity emulator on top of Linux on the cheapest Intel boards possible and not updating their crappy OS and UI to todays standards. The sampler STILL writes nonsense to the ssd when the pathlenght gets longer than 76 characters. Why would you even include an SSD with Terrabytes of diskspace, when you have barely enough characters to address them?
And both "Workstations" have no Piano Roll sequencer where you can edit Midi Events and velocity, aftertouch etc. A fucking Atari with 4Mhz Motorola 68000 could do better! Remember?
These "NEW" workstations are a complete farce.

Saxifraga wrote:

I love ACB and an ACB synth with 16 or 32 voices would have been dope, but instead they are gaslighting people again.

Some people wanted the new Jupiter to be analog. Some wanted it to be ACB. It is neither. It is something new. It is not just SNS. It appears to be some cross between SNS and ACB. Maybe that is what the X refers to, just as the X in the JD-XA was a cross between digital and analog. Until we have the full specification we can only speculate. But to me this seems like the start of a new line, not a repackaging of older products. The sound demos released so far seem to support this. To my ears at least it sounds more sophisticated than SNS. I might be wrong, but it is too early to conclude.

If you assign the Jupiter 8 (on the X) to all four parts you will indeed get 32 voices. If it was SNS (like on the Jupiter 80) it would be 256 voices (if I understood the maximum polyphony on the X correctly). So clearly the emulation is much more accurate on the X (and more processor intensive), more akin to ACB.

In any case, does it really matter which chips are beneath as long as the end result is a good experience? Using a Kronos is like using a slow Linux computer with a small screen and poor ventilation. But Roland synths are always quick and responsive.

kimsnarf wrote:

Saxifraga wrote:

I love ACB and an ACB synth with 16 or 32 voices would have been dope, but instead they are gaslighting people again.

Some people wanted the new Jupiter to be analog. Some wanted it to be ACB. It is neither. It is something new. It is not just SNS. It appears to be some cross between SNS and ACB. Maybe that is what the X refers to, just as the X in the JD-XA was a cross between digital and analog. Until we have the full specification we can only speculate. But to me this seems like the start of a new line, not a repackaging of older products. The sound demos released so far seem to support this. To my ears at least it sounds more sophisticated than SNS. I might be wrong, but it is too early to conclude.

If you assign the Jupiter 8 (on the X) to all four parts you will indeed get 32 voices. If it was SNS (like on the Jupiter 80) it would be 256 voices (if I understood the maximum polyphony on the X correctly). So clearly the emulation is much more accurate on the X (and more processor intensive), more akin to ACB.

In any case, does it really matter which chips are beneath as long as the end result is a good experience? Using a Kronos is like using a slow Linux computer with a small screen and poor ventilation. But Roland synths are always quick and responsive.[/quote

I like the idea of the Jupiter-X a lot.
I have a System-8 and had the Jupiter-80 and 50. The System-8 recreates the classic analog sounds of Roland's classic synths and Jupiter-80 was good for producing acoustic sounds and digital synth sounds. I would love to have both concepts of sound mixed into one instrument with enough polyphony for stacks and layers. I could care less if the analog sounds are produced digitally.

Synthtron wrote:

I like the idea of the Jupiter-X a lot.

Sound generation type always seemed an odd debate to me... analog/digital... I still don't completely understand the passion for either, but different strokes for sure. Looking forward to hearing it in person.

How does it sound and how do I connect with the UI? So far it looks like a tactile interface I can really connect to in a hurry. And that build quality... and the completely new keybed shared with the new Fantom F6. Just amazing. I hear it's still six months and counting for the official release... any clarity on that?

spottingjonah wrote:

How does it sound and how do I connect with the UI? So far it looks like a tactile interface I can really connect to in a hurry. And that build quality... and the completely new keybed shared with the new Fantom F6. Just amazing. I hear it's still six months and counting for the official release... any clarity on that?

In terms of the controls, it looks pretty good to me. It appears to have all the usual physical controls for analog emulations. You use a single set of OSC controls for the (up to) four oscillators by selecting the one you want to control with the four buttons. That seems reasonable, since oscillator controls are mostly set-and-forget. Doesn't look like any menu diving is required for the most important sound design tools.

As far as I can tell, the Jupiter-Xm has exactly the same engine and differs only in physical controls and connectivity. It looks like it will require menu diving to access some of the parameters, but at least the screen is front and center.

"this is just another JV/SuperNatural update running on AMD chips. smh"

Not SN. that seems gone.

Still no JP-X specs but ...

In simple terms looking at the specs of the engine, V-core is just the PCM and VA parts of an FA/JXi/JDXA/GAIA/I7/JP50/JP80 (thus JV) , that is the ROLAND R8A02021ABG Renesas R8A Series SuperH SoC (System on a Chip) (ECS-2) with enhancements. Perhaps they even reused the same chip.
http://rolandfatools.mooo.com/
https://adriangin.wordpress.com/2016/10/25/roland-integra-7-hardware-review/

Looking at the MC-707 manuals, the engine is almost a copy exact architecture wise of the Fantom but in an Aira jacket. so very likley the MC-707, JP-X and Fantom all use the same core logic which makes perfect sense cost wise for Roland. Spitting out money for this and/or selling an older products is up to personal situation and preference, but technology wise, its seems another PCM evolution, not revolution.

I think people are getting slightly confused, the ACB and DCB base code is what’s in the new Jupiter’s they’ve had to be re-compiled to run on the new AMD chipset. The new chipset just means you can have more cores on one CPU running more efficiently simultaneously. This is why we’ve got the JX8P and not the JX3P on the jupiter’s as we had on the system 8. I think the Jupiter’s the new ones anyway are a higher end successor to the System 8 rather than anything else. I just really hope though that new synth engines are created and not just loads of recreations of old synths.

skinmechanic wrote:

I think people are getting slightly confused, the ACB and DCB base code is what’s in the new Jupiter’s they’ve had to be re-compiled to run on the new AMD chipset. The new chipset just means you can have more cores on one CPU running more efficiently simultaneously. This is why we’ve got the JX8P and not the JX3P on the jupiter’s as we had on the system 8. I think the Jupiter’s the new ones anyway are a higher end successor to the System 8 rather than anything else. I just really hope though that new synth engines are created and not just loads of recreations of old synths.

None of this is true.

If this synth sounds the same as the previous ACB technology, it would a nice production tool in my setup. Hope it’s coming soon.

I know it's a Xm, but since it is virtually the same instrument.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_JthV1-9TY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IANZ_QMORNs

I think people are getting slightly confused, the ACB and DCB base code is what’s in the new Jupiter’s they’ve had to be re-compiled to run on the new AMD chipset. The new chipset just means you can have more cores on one CPU running more efficiently simultaneously. This is why we’ve got the JX8P and not the JX3P on the jupiter’s as we had on the system 8. I think the Jupiter’s the new ones anyway are a higher end successor to the System 8 rather than anything else. I just really hope though that new synth engines are created and not just loads of recreations of old synths.

A reference for these statements please or just speculation ?

Suggest take a look at the Gaia (PCM), I7 (PCM/VA/SN/Surround), JP50/80 (PCM/VA/SN), JD/XA (PCM/VA/Analog) the new Fantom (PCM/VA/VP) MC101/707 (PCM/VA) and FA(VA/PCM/SN) reference documents and compare the VA oscillator and PCM sections ? What is new, gone or the same for drum and synth engines ? Since there is no ACB or DCB in these , it could be the DCB and/or ACB chipset was added to the VA/PCM engine in the X but that would be highly unlikely. Perhaps the X is more an evolution of the JD/XA (without the analog part) but still rooting from the original D-series LA and XV (PCM/VA) structures. Moving all the VA/PCM implementation from a non-Intel discrete embedded processor to an AMD x64 OS based environment would be an enormous effort without much added value and it also very doubtful since Fantom and JP/X are said to be both Zen-core and by logic that would mean the Fantom is also running on x64.

Roland claims the X has "RD piano" but if that means V-Piano is included it would make equal to the Fantom without the workstation features. The Fantom seems to have not all V-Piano sounds but those from the RD2000. Check the Fantom thread, SN is #1 on top of the list of missing Fantom features, V-Piano isn't good enough. People saying that this may come in a "future" update may not have learned Rolands' lessons. This seems to point out that the JP/X is a JD/XA without analog in a retro package.

P.S: After one month no supporting documents or user manuals on Roland's site while for the 707 and Fantom these were there instantly available upon announcement.

So "This is MORE like it ?", Likely less except for VA/PCM enhancements and the looks. The I7 IMHO (maybe biased) is still unbeatable. price and feature wise.

I worked as a consultant for AMD so I know the chipset and CPU they're using for sure, they did have a JX8P Plugout developed for the System 8 but I'm told the System 8 chipset wasn't powerful enough. That's where the development and re-compiling of the source code for the DCB and ACB technology came in to play for the new Zen core. Wha the finished product was or is I'm speculating but I can only tel you what I know about the CPU and how Roland came to a decision on using it.

skinmechanic wrote:

I worked as a consultant for AMD so I know the chipset and CPU they're using for sure, they did have a JX8P Plugout developed for the System 8 but I'm told the System 8 chipset wasn't powerful enough. That's where the development and re-compiling of the source code for the DCB and ACB technology came in to play for the new Zen core. Wha the finished product was or is I'm speculating but I can only tel you what I know about the CPU and how Roland came to a decision on using it.

Do you actually have sources for any of this?

skinmechanic wrote:

I worked as a consultant for AMD so I know the chipset and CPU they're using for sure, they did have a JX8P Plugout developed for the System 8 but I'm told the System 8 chipset wasn't powerful enough. That's where the development and re-compiling of the source code for the DCB and ACB technology came in to play for the new Zen core. Wha the finished product was or is I'm speculating but I can only tel you what I know about the CPU and how Roland came to a decision on using it.

Hmm, I thought Zen Core was another marketing term like Linear Arithmetic, Wave Acceleration, and Supernatural, not the actual chip used.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(microarchitecture)

Zen is the codename for a computer processor microarchitecture from AMD

i forgot if I heard if from Scott Tibbs or David Ahlund but Roland have stated its based on a chip. Reading about the chip on its wiki page, seems to be in line with what the processing power is under the fantom hood...