Hi again Rich,
Thanks to Cello and Soundworld A.D. (both RC members) there is a great site for new patches
http://www.jp-80.com. Currently it is a repository for Jupiter 80, V-Synth/V-Synth XT, V-Synth GT, and Integra-7. Other members here like PauloF have also contributed sounds too. I'm pretty confident there will be sounds for the Jupiter 50. It may be that some of the Jupiter 80 sounds there would work but best to ask them.
Now that said, a nice thing about the Jupiters is that you don't have to be a great or even good deep level programmer. I have to use the JP-80 specs because that's what I have so just adjust the numbers for a JP50.
The Jupiter does the reverse of every other synth and workstation on the market (except for Integra-7) in that instead of booting up into patch level, it boots into registration mode. In Korg speak, that would be a Combi, in Kurz lingo, a setup, and in Yamaha and older Rolands performance mode. But, one level down are live sets and you can do a LOT at this level. On the 80, there are over 2500 live sets. These live sets are actually very powerful patches and you can layer these as you desire. The shuffle button allows you to randomize parameters if you want and you can come up with some very interesting sounds. Also, Roland has pretty much covered a lot of the sonic territory you would need for Journey, Styx, Foreigner, etc. That said, IF you need to go into deep synth editing, you can hit synth edit and tweak like a madman. :)
Another option to get the best of both worlds would be to scope out Ebay for a PC3. Make sure it's not one of the "LE" versions. The PC3 is a 76 key synth monster that covers everything and has VA-1 and KB3 included. VA-1 is Kurzweil's virtual analog synth and KB3 is their dedicated B3 engine, and you get nine sliders for real time control. In KB3 mode these are your draw bars, and in VA-1 and Dynamic VAST, these can be assignable controllers to virtually any parameter you want. So let's say you want to crank up both the distortion AND the delay on a lead patch simultaneously. You can easily assign these onto two sliders! Obviously in KB3 mode, these sliders give you the control of a drawbar organ. PC3 is still supported by Kurzweil - their track record in terms of support is IMHO the best in the business among the Big Four. PC3 goes for some pretty nice prices on Ebay. So, if your bank account permits, you COULD get a PC3 and a Jupiter 50 and you are set ,especially if organs are that important, i.e, you need the control you would have on a real organ. KB3 is REALLY good. In fact, I tend to prefer it over CX-3 in Kronos as KB3 has a real vintage sound and feel; CX-3 is good but is a bit too "precise" to my ears. But, you're not considering Kronos so it's a moot point anyway.
If money IS an issue, then you still face a choice. I have only two complaints about the Jupiters: the lack of a librarian because there just isn't enough space to load in/create all the sounds you might want to add, and the lack of real time controls. Not certain how the 50 works, but on the 80, you have the tone blenders for the upper and lower registrations and a knob each for cutoff and resonance. If you don't NEED realtime control over parameters, the Jupiters are fantastic instruments. The pads and leads are simply phenomenal, and the pads are also MASSIVE. You do like the pianos and I have to agree that the acoustic pianos in the Jupiters are really good. [Edit: the D-Beam gives you some realtime control but not as extensive as I would like, but that's just me and what I need a synth to do.
Both the Jupiter 50 and the Kurzweil PC3 have a very important thing in common: each covers considerable sonic territory on their own. If you end up playing in a band that does Styx for instance, the Kurzweil actually has the keymaps for the MUCH more expensive ARP 2500; Dennis DeYoung did a lot of his synth work on the ARP 2500 and 2600. Also with Kurzweil, many of the patches actually have the name of the song they emulate. Punch up Dream On if you are doing the Aerosmith classic, and it IS the patch! Similarly Strawberry Flutes is virtually indistinguishable from the Mellotron that McCartney used for Strawberry Fields.
Both excel at great synth sounds and each has its own character so you can't go wrong with either. Acoustic pianos are much better IMHO on the Jupiters than the PC3 piano for solo work and obviously they will sit well in a mix. Kurz pianos are older samples and while they're good thanks to the wizardry the folks at Kurzweil accomplished, they are essentially the same piano keymaps (waves if you will) as those found in the K2500 which at the time were the industry standard. But the Jupiters give you SN and loveley parameters like Sympathetic Resonance and Damper noise which take the pianos to an eerily realistic level.
EPs are better on the Kurzweil, period. But, how much will you use them? If you're in a Pink Floyd tribute band, doing funk, or doing 60's classic rock, you'll get a lot of variety. That said, when you are moving into Journey, Foreigner, and Styx territory, EPs are not that crucial and you can get away with murder as far as EPs are concerned.
Pads out of the box are very much Jupiter's strong point. Insanely huge and beautiful! For some bizarre reason, Kurzweil was rather stingy with the pads on PC3; each program can contain 32 layers and why there aren't more huge pads on the PC3 is anybody's guess. Oh yes, it can do amazing pads but,you'll have to program them and for some folks, Dynamic VAST is pretty scary and I can't blame them: it's an extremely powerful synth where you actually can create your own DSPs. Throw FUNs - very esoteric mathematical modulators - into the mix - and you might not be too pleased.
Leads are a toss up between the two. The Jupiter out of the box has a LOT more leads to choose from.
Orchestral is where Kurzweil really REALLY shines and for my ears at least, the only hardware instrument that comes close is Kronos, but Kurzweil still spanks Kronos IMHO and yes I have both.
I love Kurzweil, but, as I write this, except for the organs lacking real time control, it seems that the Jupiter 50 is going to be the better choice based upon what you stated, namely:
You don't want to get into deep programming. The Jupiter is far more approachable than the Kurzweil.
You want to be able to cover a wide swath of sonic territory for some 70s and more 80s stuff and again, the approachability/accessibility of a Jupiter is going to give you more instant gratification. Again, I am saying this as a fan of both. :)
Kurzweil PC3 is heavy and if you're tired of lugging your Motif, then the PC3 is not going to be a break for your back; it might break your back instead. ;)
Lastly, Kurzweil dealerships and service centers are a lot harder to find. I was very lucky when I lived in the US as the two cities I called home luckily had Kurzweil dealerships/service centers. In the state of Ohio for instance, there is ONE and only one Kurz dealer. If you are in Toledo, no worries. If you're in Cincinnati, you have a five hour drive.
Even if money wasn't a consideration, I would not encourage you to buy a Jupiter 80 only because it's rather heavy. It's not as bad as a Fantom X or G, but, the 50 is a lot lighter and you still get much of the power of its big sister.
I really think that if you can work around the organs, the Jupiter 50 will be a great synth for virtually anything that doesn't require extensive real time control. Tnicoson is spot on about the 50. I ALMOST bought one actually. I wanted to get it and pair it with an Integra-7, but, the dealer didn't have the I7 in stock so I got the 80 instead. That said, I've spent four months with the Jupiter and I don't regret the purchase at all.
I apologize for the long post, but, I wanted to throw another option out there and as it turns out, I think that still when all is said and done, the Jupiter 50 is the better choice.
Ack! One more thing: you were considering a MOX. Just remember that while it sounds good, you are going to take a polyphony hit as a MOX is 64 voice versus a Jupiter 50 128 voice instrument. Your ES is 128 polyphony, and while the MOX has the wave ROM of the XS, I suspect you will feel the difference in the MOX when you hear the occasional voice stealing. And, like the Jupiter, there are no drawbars for the organ.
LOL I REALLY need to stop making others' eyes bleed with these novels I write. :)
Best,
Vlad
"Turn off your mind, relax and float downstream" - John Lennon "Tomorrow Never Knows"
