Jupiter-50 Video Demos

YO ! Michael !

Your playing is great ! The 50 sounds great ! And . . . the videography is very good !

Thanks for posting these. It's really nice to sit back and BE entertained for a while. A job very well done all the way around!

Love the variety of sounds and music styles.

Regards,

Ted

Thanks, Ted. Glad that you enjoyed the videos.

I need to do a few more, however, and will. These videos just feature individual programs... I have been creating some of my own registrations, with layered sounds, and will be doing a video or two featuring those.

Also, FYI, I have done 150+ demo videos of other synths - you can find these on YouTube as well:

Access Virus TI
Yamaha MOX6
Yamaha Motif
Yamaha QS300
Yamaha CP33
Korg M3
Korg Micro X
DSI Prophet 08
DSI Mopho
Moog Rogue
Moog Little Phatty
Roland JV1080
Roland XV5050
Waldorf Micro Q
Korg MiniKorg 700S
Spectrasonics Omnisphere
...and more

You can find them here:

https://www.youtube.com/user/keybdwizrd/videos?flow=list&live_view=500&sort=dd&view=1

Happy Listening!

Michael

Beautiful work Michael!!!

I just wanted to comment on an answer you gave to someone on your first YouTube demo. I think that the Jupiter80 and 50 ARE excellent sound design tools. True, there are thousands of patches on each, but, even without deep programming, a musician can produce stunning original patches by layering - and that without even making a full blown registration. So I partly agree with you but would amend by saying that for a person looking for an instrument with LOTS of presets, the Jupiters are excellent, but for the person looking to create absolutely monster synths of her/hisown, the Jupiters are more than capable. When I first got my 80 I was amazed as I drilled down to the Synth Edit section. This is one bad beastie for creating amazing textures, leads, etc. When each partial is basically a synth on its own, and you add those together, it's crazy. Go further and combine two into a Liveset and you're already in synth nirvana. Registrations are just the proverbial icing.

Roland really needs to hire you man. Your chops are off the wall and you are quite versatile stylistically. I listened to all of your Jupiter demos and to say I was impressed is a gross understatement.

Okay, I know this is a Roland forum, and I own a number of Rolands, but Michael, have you done anything with Kronos or Kurzweils - or Motifs for that matter? I know you do softsynth stuff like Omnisphere but, just not my thing.

Anyhow, thank you SO very much for demonstrating not only great musicianship but also how inspiring the Jupiters are. Next time I'm at HC and run into a Jupiter hater, I think I'll refer those people to your work.

With much respect,
Vlad

Vlad -

Thanks for your very kind words.

I made some demos of the original Motif when I had one, and have also done some with my MOX6. I have never, unfortunately, had a Kronos or a Kurzweil, simply for lack of dollars. While I have made video demos of a lot of keyboards, I have never owned them all at once. I sold off a couple of synths to come up with the money to buy my Jupiter-50, for example.

Regarding the synth power of the Jupiter-50, you are absolutely correct. I was able to spend a few hours this week digging into the editing menus, exploring tones and whatnot. While I have played keyboards for many years, I am still trying to get comfortable with Roland's terminology and architecture with this instrument. On my own, I've probably been able to easily figure out and understand 60 - 70% of what's going on under the hood of the Jupiter. But I have much to learn, and some aspects seem rather obtuse. And then there's the matter of redundancy... I could be completely wrong, but I seem to be finding the same parameter accessible from more than one place in the architecture. In any case, I should stick my nose in the manual some more, although it seems to be rather basic.

It turns out that these Jupiters are indeed VERY powerful and flexible synthesizers. You've got "partials" - up to three of which can be combined to make up a "tone." Tones are combined to create "live sets," and then combine live sets with solo and lower parts to create "registrations." The number of editing parameters available at each level of the architecture is amazing.

It is possible that the new Jupiters could be the most misunderstood and underestimated synthesizers marketed in recent memory.

My first encounter with these instruments was in a Guitar Center. The colored buttons with category labels (piano, organ, strings, guitar, etc.) make the keyboard look like some kind of simple push-button instrument with rompler sounds in it. Push this button for a variety of string sounds, push another for a variety of pianos, etc. And while it sounds good, you mean to tell me that this Jupiter-80 is $3,500? And it's not even 16-part multi-timbral? I mean, why in the world would I want to buy one of these, when I can get a Kronos 73 for about $1,000 less?

In any case, the colored buttons are pretty, but there's very little on the front panel to indicate that the Jupiter is really a SYNTHESIZER. Forgetting about the editing capabilites, there's virtually no indication that there are hundreds upon hundreds of preset synth sounds inside the keyboard. There's a SYNTH LEAD button, to call up a sound, and an alternate, but it's not readily obvious that there are several hundred more inside the box.

These Jupiters - especially, perhaps, the 50, are in serious need of a monstrous, detailed, and thorough VST/AU editor. With all of the work that Roland engineers obviously put into creating these things, I don't understand why we don't have a great piece of companion software to easily and elegantly control everything that's inside these boxes. They should also release a new model with more hardware knobs/sliders to provide more front panel real-time control over commonly-used and user-definable synth parameters. But my fear is that Roland will eventually discontinue the Jupiters without further investment, and just move on to something else. I hope I'm wrong.

Michael

Hi Michael,

I agree about the need for an editor and a librarian! I love my 80, but, aaaggghhh, as Cello mentioned, too many sounds and not enough slots! (If you load Synth Legends, there's no more room).

You pointed out the colored buttons and believe it or not, I had to show dealers how to get into the editing areas! They have told me that a lot of people decide not to purchase a Jupiter 80/50 because to them it does seem like a very expensive preset box. That's a shame because these instruments are really incredible. In fact there is a person on the 80 forum who is asking how to reproduce sounds or purchase sound sets because he feels that for instrument like this, the buyer should be able to to that. I wrote a reply and hope the person reads it.

I think Roland made fantastic instruments with the Jupiters but, I think they are misunderstood as you have noted and I think it's because Jupiters are sort of reverse engineered. Normally a synth boots into patch mode and the musician can edit right away. The Jupiter boots into Registration mode (Combi mode in Korg speak, Setups for Kurzweil, and Performances in Roland and Yamaha workstations). I really think this is throwing potential buyers for the proverbial loop. Truth be told, when I sat down and auditioned the Jupiter, I was thinking "are you serious? 3500 USD for something with only 256 presets??!!" I hit the Single play button on the screen and whammo! Then I saw Synth Edit. Two hours of playing this beast and it was a no-brainer buy.

While the editing on the touchscreen is intuitive once you reach it, I do agree that both Jupiter models NEED more real time controls. This is marketed as a live performance instrument and the quick access to Registrations is nice, but, rather limited. Ironically, Kronos, being a workstation has far more real time controls and I find that for organs and other sounds that need to change dynamically, I rely on it and the Kurz PC3 rather than the Jupiter.

I do not regret buying it; obviously I saw the lack of real time controllers. I think both Jupiters sound phenomenal, but, I don't get Roland's decision to implement a monster VA but lacking more real time controls.

I too hope that Roland won't abandon the Jupiters. But since the release of the Fantom G, Roland has not exactly been top notch in after market support. That seems to be changing with the release of Synth Legends for the Jupiters and I understand the Integra-7 folk have or will have it too. Roland has three great instruments to support: the Jupiters and Integra-7. I visit a lot of fora and hang out with a lot of musicians and many have felt abandoned by Roland. I hope that things are turning around.

Thanks again for the killer demos! Even though I own the 80, it's great to hear what other people are doing and you do it well!

Best,
Vlad

PS: RoyR and I have been brainstorming ways to get the JP50 forum going and any ideas you have would be great! The 80 and the 50 have some differences but at heart they have the same powerful synth engines.

Vlad -

I, too, was flabbergasted when I first came across the Jupiter-80 in a store, saw the price tag, and learned that it wasn't a workstation. More troubling was that I couldn't figure out how the damn thing worked, or what a "registration" was. I just wanted to hear a damn piano sound. And there was no one in Guitar Center who knew how to work it either. :)

I did a bunch of reading, however, and was able to spend a bunch of time playing a much cheaper Jupiter-50 in the same store, with a "closeout" price of $1799, as I recall. I learned that I really really really enjoyed playing the live sets. It seemed like an interesting instrument, and when I found a new/demo unit from a musical instrument store on ebay for $1349 (free shipping, no tax), I pulled the trigger. I still had no idea how deep the thing was under the hood.

We share all of the same frustrations and head-scratchers about the Jupiters. I have a Virus TI Polar, one of the awesomest knobbiest synths ever made. Imagine a Jupiter-100 with a front panel like the TI's. The mind reels. :) The Jupiter-50 just has cutoff and resonance knobs - that's it! Are you KIDDING me? And like you, I wonder how anyone could think that this is supposed to be a performance instrument?

Knowing what I know now, I wish I had an 80 instead of the 50. I see gently used 80s on ebay for about $2,500, but that's still a lot of money for me these days. Combine a mediocre career situation with kids in college and you don't have a household budget capable of easily handling expensive synthesizer purchases.

Regarding the Jupiter-50 forum, I don't know... are there many owners out there? Certainly the lower price tag may have sucked in some buyers like me, but my gut tells me there aren't a whole lot of us around.

If the people at Roland are smart, they'll start to realize that they need to build markets for these sophisticated instruments. And generate repeat customers with upgraded models every few years, like they did with the Fantom (and Yamaha has done VERY effectively with the Motifs).

By the way, I'd like to check out those "new" vintage synth sounds for the Jupiter. I guess I need to read about how to load those additional sounds into the 50 without blowing out the original live sets and registrations I've already created for myself. No doubt this will educate me firsthand as to why a patch librarian is also needed for the Jupiters.

Michael

Michael,

There are some pretty nice workarounds in the JP-80 forum for loading in sounds you might want to check out. The Vintage Series is free from Roland and does sound great. I do recall that someone in the forum suggested getting two USB sticks for sound management.

You mentioned Yamaha and man I agree; Yamaha has to be the most savvy manufacturer of the big four. The mileage Yamaha has gotten out of the Motif series boggles my addled mind! I guess part of it is that Yamaha still has a considerable presence in live acts and studios and I recall a marketing video from Yamaha just before the XF was released and the selling point? Yamaha proudly stated that they added more wave ROM so that existing Motif owners could upgrade and still not lose anything.

Not to get too off topic here but Yamaha's share in the market could become endangered. Kronos has some very sophisticated modelling in STR-1, EP-1, and AL-1. Roland has created these monster Jupiters that are deep VA's. (SuperNatural ain't that shabby either; I do love the Jupiter pianos), and Kurzweil should never ever be underestimated.

Again, I'm with you man and hope that Roland listens; they are in a great position to create something absolutely off the charts. In fact they already have but maybe a Jupiter Mark II with some realtime controls? Maybe, just maybe, the Jupiters are the test bed for a new Roland workstation? Imagine a Roland that does what Korg did with Kronos and OASYS! A killer workstation that would include the XV and Fantom sound sets, a D-50, a V-Synth WITH the touch pad, all of the SRX cards virtually as in Integra-7, the SuperNatural components of Jupiter and Integra, perhaps a virtual JD-990 and Super JX, and a nice suite of real time controls. I'm a poor grad student but I think I would sell my very soul for that!

Great "talking" to you again Michael and keep the great demos coming!

Vlad

So this is technically off topic, but it's my thread, so it's okay. :)

For the first time, really, I just spent several hours playing around with creating my own keyboard splits, as I am a two-handed player (15 years of piano lessons and all that). And I have to say that -

When playing splits, this is definitely where I wish I had an 80, so that I could have two live sets called up at once. With the 50, if you want to solo over a live set, all you've got is tones to play with, and vice versa. Now that's not the end of the world - some of the tones are very nice. But they're obviously relatively uncomplicated sounds.

Also, I played around with the "harmony intelligence" feature for the first time. I thought it would be stupid, but it has some waaaay cool applications. For instance, with the alto sax patch and the big band setting, the synth generates some awesome sax section harmonies. It comes up with chord voicings that I would never (and could never) come up with and play myself.

Vlad - You're right about Yamaha and the other encroaching manufacturers. I bought an original Motif6 and played the snot out of it until a couple of years ago, when I ultimately replaced it with the MOX6. I would have preferred to replace it with an XF, but couldn't afford it (are you sensing a theme here?)... Anyhow, the Yamaha sounds are mostly very good, and they really play well together.

The Motif preset library has a rather uniform sound to it - I had a Korg M3 for a while, and found the sample technique to be all over the map. A lot of the samples were very close mic'd, leaving me feeling like I had my head stuck inside an electric piano, or a bell was three inches from my ear. Anyhow, the M3 is a fantastic instrument, and has some great sounds, but I missed the uniformity of the Yamaha patch set, where the Motif presets feel like they're all part of one grand instrument. I know others who don't care for that approach, and that's okay.

But the Kronos is a wicked-sounding instrument. I have spent 30-40 minutes playing one at a Guitar Center on several occasions and have been very impressed. I would get a Kronos in a hearbeat if I had the money.

Michael

Hey Michael,

Thanks for the tip on the Harmony Intelligence. I hadn't thought of approaching it from a sax or other woodwind. The distorted guitars on the Jupiters are a bit weak but I wanted to see if I could produce some harmonic leads and it just didn't sound right. I'll try your tip since the saxes are great and maybe I can get my head around the Harmony Intelligence.

In the projects I am involved with, I have to frequently take the role of not only keyboardist, but second guitar - and I am the lead vocalist on top of that! For some songs, we want leads that harmonize. Maybe I need to get deeper into the Jupiter and nasty the guitars more. We don't have a need for a rhythm guitarist, but we do need that crunch, growl, and scream of a second guitar at times.

As far as you getting a Jupiter 80, I would say keep a weather eye out. They're great synths but the issues we've discussed re the buyer seems to be hurting it. It is ranking rather low at Thomann.de, Europe's largest music retailer and a good source for gauging the rankings of instruments based on sales. I am seeing more and more JP-80s on Ebay and elsewhere going for great deals. Hell, since the release of Kronos X, the vanilla Kronos has come down in price. Good things happen to good people Michael, and you'll get a Jupiter 80 at a nice price when the time is right.

That said, the 50 rocks man and what you are doing with this powerful synth just blows me away. I would KILL for your chops Michael. I'm self-taught thanks to a bastard father who wouldn't allow me to learn piano as a child - something I always wanted. When I turned 18, I began teaching myself and for 18 years I have been striving to get where musicians like you are. I have theory down perfectly thanks to university, but man, my technique sucks! LOL!

Best,
Vlad

Vlad -

I agree that the guitars in the Jupiter are not the best, and frankly found that to be rather disappointing. I am a frustrated wannabe guitarist who plays keys... in terms of the "best" electric guitar sounds in a keyboard, I have to give the nod to the trusty ol' Motif, as seen in these videos:

Motif Synth Guitar (I think this was maybe the first video I ever put on YouTube)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14U3kqLB7Cg

Motif Demo #3 (Guitars and Bass)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhyAA9U8Pbk

Interestingly, Omnisphere has some pretty good guitar samples as well. Here's its PRS:

Omnisphere PRS Lead Guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV_NuPVEEx0

Omnisphere also has some good-sounding acoustic and pedal steel (yes!) presets... One night I put a few of them together (will a couple of parts pre-recorded into Digital Performer:

Omnisphere Acoustic and Pedal Steel Guitars
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8crSV3SjHM

I had an M3 for a while, and REALLY enjoyed playing its classical guitar. I made this while taking advantage of the Karma functionality the M3 offers:

Korg M3 Classical Nylon Guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85p5YSEDPws

I do understand that most all of this sounds like a keyboardist playing guitar sounds on a keyboard, but at present it's the best I can do. Due to the nature of the interfaces, there's just no way to REALLY create perfectly believable guitars on the keyboards, unless you keep it pretty simple (which certainly isn't what I do).

Sorry to hear about the father and the lessons situation. I was fortunate to have parents who paid for 13 years of classical piano lessons. I say "classical" because whenever my father would catch me playing rock and roll on the piano he would HOLLER at me and threaten to stop my lessons. He would always say that he wasn't going to shell out his money for lessons if I was just going to play that CRAP on the piano. But in the end I did get the lessons, and have continued to play for many decades since.

A boy that my daughter went to high school with - he was a talented kid who was always playing a little Casio electric keyboard, performing in the school talent shows and whatnot, but his parents would never give him lessons. I don't know why. He managed to get into a private musical school of some kind in Minnesota, even though he couldn't read or write music. I guess he did well, because he is currently at Yale getting a Masters degree in music composition. Damn, I wish I'd been able to go to Yale. I understand that Yale isn't exactly found on top of the lists of great music schools, but regardless, that's a long way for the kid to go, considering that he never had any formal instruction until he was 18 years old. I don't think he has become any kind of incredible pianist/keyboardist, but he is writing a ton of music, and hoping to get into the film business.

As things go, if you stick with something long enough you will get to where you want to be.

Thanks for the kind words about my chops, but these videos are rather misleading, because there are boatloads of things I CANNOT play on the keyboards. When you do things like these videos, or play your own music for that matter, you obviously only play things that you CAN play, and play them reasonably well. But I assure you that the list of things I can't play is pretty damn long. :)

Michael