Jupiter-80 and KARMA!!! / RealTime knobs for Solo/Perc Part?

E1-E4 can only control the upper and/or lower live sets.

Devnor wrote:

E1-E4 can only control the upper and/or lower live sets.

Thanks for the conformition of this unfortunate fact.

I really love the JP-80 and the sound quality is really very outstanding and was never heard before, even compared to the OASYS or high-end plugins. The restrictions of the routing possibilities are the reason for the outstanding accessibilitiy of the JP-80 and it's a good philosophy, quite contrary to the Kronos/OASYS concept, which gives you a sheer plethora of almost infinite modulation and programming parameters. But to create a new sound on the OASYS is always very time consuming (but very rewarding) and it's always a very long journey and more like a scientific endeavor than spontaneous music making.

It's quite the contrary with the JP-80, where you get instant and outstanding results, while you play your music!

But Roland took some restrictions too far. I really hope, they will offer a future update, which will make it possible to control also the Perc and Solo Part with the four controller knobs.

Another thing that would be nice in a future update:
It is only possible to modulate the Pulse Width of the PW-SQR oscillator-waveform with the LFO, but unfortunately not with the Envelope!

This was an important feature of the original Juno-6 and Jupiter-8 and all other original Junos and Jupiters (you could choose either the LFO or the Env to modulate the Pulse Width), which contributed very much to the special sound characteristics of those legendary synthesizers.

This is really missing on the JP-80 and it would be great if Roland would implement this in a future update.
But OK, on the JP-80, we have THREE independent Oscillators instead, with their own Envs, LFOs, etc. which the original Junos and Jupiters just could have dreamt of...
-

I couldn't care less about the KARMA. It makes everything sound robotic. What famous producers/musicians use it?

Chrisk-K wrote:

I couldn't care less about the KARMA. It makes everything sound robotic. What famous producers/musicians use it?

You are embarrassingly revealing your complete lack of knowledge. You obviously don't know, that you can use KARMA e.g. as a real time controller, which is very useful to simulate playing techniques in real time, like guitar strumming, etc, etc. So it is a great performance tool!

Watch this examples:
http://www.karma-lab.com/vp/vid/hi/MPLive3-hi.flv

And to answer your question: I know myself as a musician and producer using KARMA. It's up to others to decide if I am famous...

But your name is obviously "NOBODY" and nobody cares about your overstrained intellect and incapability of learning.

-

Dial it back a bit Dany.

You have many thoughtful and insightful observations, several that have made me try different ways of approaching my synth. I always read your posts word-for-word as I think you have a lot to offer the group.

But the name calling makes you come off as adolescent. You're above that dude, and your posts show it. Relax and let people have their opinions.

scottrod wrote:

Dial it back a bit Dany.

You have many thoughtful and insightful observations, several that have made me try different ways of approaching my synth. I always read your posts word-for-word as I think you have a lot to offer the group.

But the name calling makes you come off as adolescent. You're above that dude, and your posts show it. Relax and let people have their opinions.

Thanks for your kind appreciation. And yep, you are right, I did overshoot the mark. So, sorry to Chrisk-K for my harsh and much too cynical words.

Peace

Dany wrote:

scottrod wrote:

Dial it back a bit Dany.

You have many thoughtful and insightful observations, several that have made me try different ways of approaching my synth. I always read your posts word-for-word as I think you have a lot to offer the group.

But the name calling makes you come off as adolescent. You're above that dude, and your posts show it. Relax and let people have their opinions.

Thanks for your kind appreciation. And yep, you are right, I did overshoot the mark. So, sorry to Chrisk-K for my harsh and much too cynical words.

Peace

Yes Dany, your opinions count, but let the others have their own too :-) take it easy ;-)
Cheers

I couldnt open the .flv file. Not a fan of Karma. When I see people using Karma it's a 1 finger music maker. Karma has it's place in sound design but again when I see it in use it's that over used techno pulsing filter sound or harp gliss - hold down a few notes and let the synth do the rest. Maybe there are better examples who knows.

Devnor wrote:

I couldnt open the .flv file. Not a fan of Karma. When I see people using Karma it's a 1 finger music maker. Karma has it's place in sound design but again when I see it in use it's that over used techno pulsing filter sound or harp gliss - hold down a few notes and let the synth do the rest. Maybe there are better examples who knows.

I know!

The link in my previous post is a download link, but this link (karma-lab player) will work in your browser:

http://www.karma-lab.com/vp/klvp2.html?ch=sounds&playID=409

On the top in the "Select Channel & Media" field, please choose "Korg OASYS Workstation".
Then afterwards, in the "Select Media File" field, please choose "MPL3: GE Examples 1" and the following clips "MPL4: GE Examples 2" and "MPL5: GE Examples 3".

Which instrument with the KARMA system do you own? The Korg Karma, the Korg M3, the Korg OASYS/Kronos, the OpenLabs MiKo/NeKo or the Yamaha Motif XF?

...or is your opinion just based on lousy youtube clips and worthless web gossip?... ;)

-

Dany wrote:

...or is your opinion just based on lousy youtube clips and worthless web gossip?... ;)

Much of it comes from watching Stephen Kay. You just made my point - Stephen holds down a few notes and out comes this glorius guitar. By itself, it's probably okay. Add that "strumming" to your tracks and it sounds quite robotic. I feel the same way about Jupiter 80 guitars & articulations.

Karma, for me, is either exquisitely creative or absolutely crass.

I totally agree that Karma can be, and is, used as a 'band in a box'.

Hate the auto-band capability - it's crass.

But get into GE creation/editing it can take on a whole new world which is different to a seq and to an arp. But it's monumentally complex (I am speaking about the Karma editor, a separate purchase from Stephen Kay).

I can use it - just. But I only use it to get what I want (which is usually the result of aimless and un-scientific tweaking!).

I too have connected my JP-80 to the OASYS - you can get some interesting things going on; all part of the creative mix and the beautiful and powerful combination of the two.

Devnor wrote:

Dany wrote:

...or is your opinion just based on lousy youtube clips and worthless web gossip?... ;)

Much of it comes from watching Stephen Kay. You just made my point - Stephen holds down a few notes and out comes this glorius guitar. By itself, it's probably okay. Add that "strumming" to your tracks and it sounds quite robotic. I feel the same way about Jupiter 80 guitars & articulations.

Why didn't you even watch the whole first video clip to its END? Stephen just shows in the beginning of the clip, how KARMA (so the computer) controls the strumming or the finger picking.

But please watch the clip from 01:44 Min on and you will see him demonstrating the "manual advance", which means that you, the player, controls the timing and the expression of the GE effect...Very musical and human.

And watch also the other two video clips I've mentioned before, completely. The facts demonstrated in these 3 videos, will show you the other side of KARMA, which are hardly known.

I dislike the robotic aspect of KARMA just like you, but there is much more behind the KARMA surface than most people assume, because most Korg Factory Preset Combis with KARMA are just a terrible and tasteless "pain in the ears". Even most of Stephen Kay's own video examples are usually just tasteless und unmusical BS.

KARMA is able to control all aspects of the Jupiter-80 (Volume, Pan, Cutoff Res,etc.) just as on the OASYS itself on all four JP-80's MIDI zones! As with all technologies, they depend on the human behind and the results of KARMA depends on you as a musician. KARMA and the JP-80 will blow your mind, if you know how to use KARMA. And that's the problem: In order to use KARMA in a reasonable, musical and appropriate way, you have to overcome a quite steep learning curve.

I mean, I don't use KARMA very often, but it is very useful in certain situations. Apart from the guitar playing effects and the synth parameter or drum pattern modulations in real time, KARMA is sometimes very useful for orchestral string patterns or tremolo effects, which are impossible to play with the hands. There are some ARP patterns on the JP-80 suitable for orchestral strings, which have a similar effect like KARMA, but you can control almost every musical aspect with KARMA in real time, which is impossible with the ARP on the JP-80.

As I've already mentioned, you can indeed do really great harm to your music and to your taste by using KARMA in the wrong way (and that's what you mostly hear), but the opposite is true as well...
-

Hello,
Dany,
Can you give me a simple example of hooking up and using JP80 with control from Karma of Kronos?
Regards
Mike

Mike-pol wrote:

Hello,
Dany,
Can you give me a simple example of hooking up and using JP80 with control from Karma of Kronos?
Regards
Mike

In brief: Take a Kronos/M3/OASYS Combi and change four channels to EXT (from INT) and set the four MIDI channels correspondingly to the MIDI channels of the four JP-80 MIDI zones. Select, resp. activate a KARMA Module for each of the four Kronos Combi channels and now you control each of the four JP-80 MIDI zones independently with a KARMA modul...

You will find all the details for every step in this brief description in the Kronos and JP-80 manual....
-