Why would you purchase an 80 over a G or Kronos?

Ditto re: economic crisis. This instrument, at this price point, while it offers interesting things that I see as a decisive evolution of an approach to synthesis Roland's been taking ever since the D-50, is just "too boutique" for me these days.

I can go to software and other, older instruments (and V-Synth, for that matter) for wild, experimental, completely flexible and extensive sound experimentation and patching.

I can still go to my JP-8000 for that direct, performative interaction with core, traditional subtractive synthesis on an instrument that sounds really good and is well-integrated in all its features.

What I'll wait for, along with the economy to return and hopefully my ability to find a job some day again that uses more than 1/40th of my abilities and experience, and pays appropriately, is the next generation of Fantom with "behavior modeling." Sounds like a good evolution of the AP synthesis on the V-Synth, something that should eventually be in the Fantom workstation series, and I like the flexibility of sampling and editing that MV-8800 and Fantom represent; combined with BM, that'd be a natural next step.

This is just too locked down, at too high a price point, and too specialized to be appealing to me right now, unfortunately, and I do love a lot of what Roland has done over the years.

Any chances we will get a 88keys version?

Also.... put all this supernatural stuff in a rack compatible with V-studio drivers via USB and I'll sell my car tomorrow to get one!

Funnily enough I played a FG8 today and thought it sounded really good! Especially the synth sounds. The piano was pretty ho-hum but the Ep's and synth patches sounded quite good. Played a RD-300NX too and sounded good too. Keys feel was OK. Got a feeling Kronos' are a far way off yet.

kenchan wrote:

yep, a lot of materials are made in the region that got wiped away in the tsunami. lots of mitigation plans to qualify substitute materials. sub-components might be assembled in the areas that are under controlled rolling blackouts in Japan. this means factories can not pump out the sub-assy's in the quantiites requested.

KorgJapan's site stated June availability or something a few weeks ago (2months delay, original launch April) but i think it's more going to be like September for the actual ramp-up... and i would expect bugs in the first 6months of production due to rushed substitute parts. i would stay away from the Kronos for one year unless someone qualified from Korg can prove me wrong.

Your information is completely wrong.

There are no "supply problems" nor "mitigation plans". Korg's manufacturing facilities are no more impacted than Roland's. Therefore there are no "rushed substitute parts". If you suggest staying away from the Kronos for one year, you should do likewise with the Jupiter 80.

The original Kronos shipping estimate was "late April" (which in real language meant April 30th, 11:59:59 PM), and that was simply an initial estimate, never guaranteed. In the U.S. the Kronos 61 key models will arrive in May, with 73/88 key models arriving in June. The OASYS and M3 models had similar delivery schedules, where the actual delivery dates were later than originally estimated. This is nothing new for Korg, and has absolutely nothing to do with the recent catastrophe in Japan.


Regarding the Jupiter-80 versus G/Kronos, I don't see a lot of overlap. The Jupiter 80 is not intended to be a workstation like the G/Kronos. The Jupiter 80 appears to be more focused as a performance synthesizer.

Sweetwater has posted a MAP (price) of $3,500 for the Jupiter 80:
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Jupiter80

This is a little more expensive than the no-longer available Fantom G7, but $300 less than the current Fantom G8 ($3,800).

I really not a spec sheet kinda person but videos and reviews do tend to suck me in.

I can't help it, I have always liked the look of Roland keyboards boards old, new, and cosmetic remakes.
The thing sounds great to boot. The Kronos sounds and looks great but I'm just not as jazzed about the KORG as I am the Roland. The Roland just sounds refreshing and an easy addition to any setup. I feel as though the KORG needs to become the center of a setup.

The JP80 is for me. Now to start saving but no hurry.

Since Korg is located in the Tokyo vicinity they may have indeed experienced some disruption in their business because of the Earthquake/Tsunami. Both Roland and Yamaha are located hundreds of miles further south and Roland already stated they weren't directly affected by the Earthquake. On the other hand, Tokyo has suffered a lot of damage being located about 150 miles from the epicenter whereas Roland and Yamaha are located about 350 miles from the epicenter. I haven't seen anywhere where Korg stated they were unaffected by the Earthquake like Yamaha and Roland which makes me wonder maybe they actually were. As far as specific parts being available it's hard to say. Car manufacturer Toyota has indeed suffered a parts shortage directly related to the Earthquake/Tsunami and I would imagine many other businesses and corporations in Japan are suffering from shortages of one kind or another as well too no doubt.

I don't think Korg would resort to using sub-standard parts for their products though. If there has been a disruption in Korg's business they would no doubt wait until the supply chain was restored before continuing to produce and/or ship their products. The Kronos was introduced at NAMM which was back in January and this is April. Roland showcased the new Jupiter-80 at Musikmesse (April 6th) and apparently it will be on store shelves sometime in July (roughly three months from its introduction). On the other hand, the Kronos has yet to show up in retailers (it has already been 3 months) and may not show up until sometime this summer from what I've gathered. If there actually was a disruption in the supply chain or at the factory it could perhaps be even longer too I suppose. I guess we'll have to wait and see what really unfolds as far as a more definitive Kronos ETA. Patience is a virtue they say. ;) It will no doubt be worth the wait. :)

keysme wrote:

I haven't seen anywhere where Korg stated they were unaffected by the Earthquake like Yamaha and Roland which makes me wonder maybe they actually were.

From a post over at the Korg Forums from Korg R&D:

danatkorg wrote:

What we'd originally told people was April for first units in stores, with some regions a month later (May). Now it looks more like May, with some regions a month later (June). This is unrelated to the earthquake.

Also, other posts mention Korg faciilties were not damaged, and all Korg employees are safe.

Therefore, Korg's ability to manufacture products is no different than Yamaha or Roland.

LOL.

Each time I've intimated towards this fact (that Korg have been NO different to Yamaha & Roland in terms of logistics etc), I've been shot down on both Gearslutz and Korg Forums........

Basically, and soley IMHO, Korg UK (in my case) are playing a very poor game by not informing its customers as to what is going on.

Still, I think they've (Korg) captively got my money, as the JP80 doesn't do what I want and the Fantom may be an option as a used item, but not yet.

Even though I am buying a Kronos, I will definitely be demoing the Jupiter 80 when it arrives in stores.

I want to see how the whole performance modeling works in practice.

I just don't see what it is with these manufacturers - ESPECIALLY roland, not wanting to give us their best in one product!
This is absolutely a great sounding keyboard, and I'm SERIOUSLY in to it! I have no doubt what so ever that it sounds a lot better than the Kronos. BUT - what's up with the "no sequencer, this is not a workstation" talk??
The fact that this is based on a processor similar to that of the Oasys, and you can stack WAY more than 16 sounds - and it already has a USB connector - the is NOTHING (as far as I know??) in the way of letting us use it as a sequencer, so we could play back SMF files and the likes of it - and need no other keyboard on stage (and in studio for that matter!). Only reason (repeat: NO REASON WHAT SO EVER) why this isn't in there... Oh yes, one... The want you to buy the next fantom to... Sigh.... :(

Python,

The reason would be that if you want those things, there's MV-8800 and Fantom. If those are discontinued, I have no doubt Roland (remember, they've acquired Cakewalk) will have something spectacular in the works re: integrating Cakewalk with hardware (beyond what they've already done at the high-end professional level).

rt

But the thing is... I already own a Fantom X. Never upgraded to the Fantom G, cause I seriously didn't think it sounded any better... Now, for a very long time, I've been going on about how roland should make a keyboard with all their supernatural stuff in it - and this is like my DREAM keyboard! Seriously!
But the way I see it, I'll have to drag my Fantom X along on gigs if I want to play anything back through the sequencer. It just bothers me, since they've put this much effort into both sounds and userinterface, why they left it out...
I know there'll probably be a new Fantom out within the next year and a half, and it'll probably have a lot of sounds derived from this beast - but I seriously doubt it'll have all the soundsculpting capabilities of this one. Instead, it'll have a massive sequencer part.
And even though I completely understand their marketing plan with all this, as a keyboardist, I'd just like that ONE keyboard to rule them all... And this one (in my oppinion), with sampling and a sequencer, would be the one. I could think of nothing more I would like in a keyboard.
But I guess I'll just drag the Fantom along for those two simple tasks...

Now, I know about the Sonic Cell - and I actually have one - but the interface just isn't as intuitive and fast to work around, so I suppose this is how it's going to be...

Why would I NOT purchase an 80 over a Kronos?
Because of this!
:))))))))))))))))))

haha.... good one ! :-)

Python,

I'm completely speculating here, but there are two separate issues to consider:

1. Constraints, in any art, are not a bad thing. Along with that, simplicity is inspiring. Roland, I am confident, is making architectural choices not just based on what's technologically possible, but on what the right mix for this type of instrument, targeted to its carefully researched market, will be. I've always taken the constraints on any instrument I play, be it a plastic ocarina or a full grand piano simulation of a Bechstein in Kontakt, as opportunities, not limitations. I learned this from listening to Pharoah Sanders for many years, and then from getting to see him live, once..... wow. And to think, he played for years with Miles Davis.. that was heaven, to see him!

2. On the technology side, there are always tradeoffs. The single most irritating thing on workstations and other complex keyboards is anything that reduces the immediacy of response, and feedback. You want an instrument that is tactile, intimate, with NO lag of any sort. This is what continues to drive me up the wall with any PC, no matter how powerful. The time from turning it on to starting to play is an eternity, compared with a real instrument. That's just the start.... again, see above, one copes with constraints, but this kind of lag is always a horrendous interference. I am betting that Roland constrained the number of goals the JP-80 is trying to serve, on a performance instrument, to keep everything they _did_ put into it snappy, immediate, intuitive.

Beyond those two things, once you get to the point of wanting to sequence and do other non-performance things well, yeah, usually you're pretty much stuck with a jack-of-all-trades workstation, a good one of which you already have, or more than a single unit to lug around.

I see this as more of a Bowie Knife than Swiss Army Knife move on Roland's part at this point; they've gone for a subset of the possible that they can implement decisively, instead of something more wide-ranging, like a full workstation, that might involve necessary but less optimal compromises in design.