Newbie questions about performance structure and chord play

8 Oct 2010, 02:36

I am considering buying a Fantom XR and I am curious about how performances are structured.

From what I can tell, each performance can consist of up to 16 parts (patches). Is it safe to say that each part can be assigned its own MIDI channel, which can be "played" from an external sequencer? I know it sounds like a rudimentary question, but I just want to be sure.

Also, can the 16 (or fewer) parts be mapped across the the keyboard? That is, can I have a bass sound (C1-B1), piano (C2-B2), guitar at (C3-B3), lead synth at (C4-B4), trumpet (C5-B5), orchestra hit (C6), horn stab (C#6), cowbell (D6), etc.? Obviously, my example is not the best, but you get the idea.

Also, the manual says that chord forms can be programmed. Can I program my own individual chord forms FOR INDIVIDUAL KEYS or am I stuck using only one chord form per performance? I was thinking of using my MIDI bass pedals to play some simple horn parts (chords) with my feet. Obviously, if I'm just transposing a Cmajor (or whatever) chord up and down, it won't be too interesting.

If these questions have been answered, I apologize. I downloaded and read the manual and searched the forums, but I either didn't find any answer or the answered seemed confusing (and, obviously, I don't have a box which I can play around with).

Thanks much!

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

8 Oct 2010, 03:40

Hi goatghost (love your name!),

From what I can tell, each performance can consist of up to 16 parts (patches). Is it safe to say that each part can be assigned its own MIDI channel, which can be "played" from an external sequencer? I know it sounds like a rudimentary question, but I just want to be sure.

Yes. Each of the parts can be assigned to any MIDI channel, so you could have all 16 on different channels or all on the same.

Also, can the 16 (or fewer) parts be mapped across the the keyboard? That is, can I have a bass sound (C1-B1), piano (C2-B2), guitar at (C3-B3), lead synth at (C4-B4), trumpet (C5-B5), orchestra hit (C6), horn stab (C#6), cowbell (D6), etc.? Obviously, my example is not the best, but you get the idea.

Yes.

Also, the manual says that chord forms can be programmed. Can I program my own individual chord forms FOR INDIVIDUAL KEYS or am I stuck using only one chord form per performance? I was thinking of using my MIDI bass pedals to play some simple horn parts (chords) with my feet. Obviously, if I'm just transposing a Cmajor (or whatever) chord up and down, it won't be too interesting.

Sadly, it's one chord form per Performance. I accept that this seriously limits the usefulness of the chord function. You could program your own Patches with up to 4 brass voices playing different chords, though.

Thanks much!

You're welcome

)

Andy

Andy

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

8 Oct 2010, 05:08

“Also, can the 16 (or fewer) parts be mapped across the the keyboard? That is, can I have a bass sound (C1-B1), piano (C2-B2), guitar at (C3-B3), lead synth at (C4-B4), trumpet (C5-B5), orchestra hit (C6), horn stab (C#6), cowbell (D6), etc.? Obviously, my example is not the best, but you get the idea.”
Yes.

I have an X7 and not an XR but on the X7 you have to actually edit the Patches themselves if you want them to respond to different key ranges when played from an external MIDI keyboard. You can't do it on the Performance level.

Not a biggy but it means that if you want to use the exact same sound in two different performances responding to different key ranges you have to make two separate patches, one for each performance/key range.

I don't know if this is different on the XR but it would surprise me. I contacted Roland about this 'limitation' on the X678 and their response was that they felt it is solely the responsibility of the master keyboard to creates splits/zones and have these send on different MIDI channels. While that's one way of working it would still be extremely convenient to be able to specify a key range for Parts directly, even if they are played from an external MIDI keyboard.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXz0UkVBZPQ
TOYZ in 60 seconds (short live video of my progrock band on YouTube)

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

8 Oct 2010, 05:24

@Arjan,

When you set the keyboard range of a Patch to play as part of a Performance from an external controller, do you have to set the course pitch octave as well?

Say I want a Hammond sound at the bottom 2 octaves on an 88 note controller, but I want the middle C of those two octaves to sound the 'real' middle C. In that case, would I have to set the Coarse Pitch several octaves higher?

I've never done this

/

Andy

Andy

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

8 Oct 2010, 08:02

When you set the keyboard range of a Patch to play as part of a Performance from an external controller, do you have to set the course pitch octave as well?

I'm not sure as it's been a while since I did things like that.

Think of it like this: the Performance key range settings in the Fantom X are strictly related to the Keyboard transmission (to internal parts and/or to the MIDI output) whereas some other settings like the Rx switch apply to Part reception. So on some pages each row corresponds to a 'keyboard' (key range) and on other pages it corresponds to a 'part' (Output for instance) and in a few cases it more or less corrresponds to a MIDI channel (Volume for instance).

The Fantom's design is a bit schizophrenic in this regard and it's now always immediately obvious what part of the system a Performance setting controls: keyboard, midi channel or sound generator.

These days I'm playing everything (including all external modules) from the Fantom's keyboard through my Live Commander software, hence I have no need for a second keyboard anymore. Too bad my Korg CX-3 doesn't come in a module version, although I have toyed with the idea of turning it into a module myself but then again it does look so nice with its all wooden exterior, would be a shame to cut it up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXz0UkVBZPQ
TOYZ in 60 seconds (short live video of my progrock band on YouTube)

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

8 Oct 2010, 11:42

Thanks much for your replies, Andy and Arjan! After a 13 year hiatus, I'm just getting back into playing and I wanted to pare things down, as far as gear is concerned.

Right now, I have a Roland A-50 76-key controller and a bunch of modules (E-Mu Vintage Keys, Roland MKS-50, Yamaha TX81Z, Kawai K1r, Peavey SP Sampler, KMX 8x8 MIDI Patch Bay, 12-channel Roland Mixer, Boss SE-50 effects processor). Needless to say, I would rather carry around one or two units, instead of a 10-space rack that weighs 100 pounds...LOL

The A-50 is awesome (4 zones, polyphonic aftertouch, etc.), but it's a bear to program. I was also considering just buying a Roland Juno Stage to replace everything, but I'd be losing aftertouch (which I don't use too often, but is still nice to have). On the plus side, I'd be able to import/play my own samples, play my own sequences (SMFs), and have a lot less to lug around.

The Fantom-XR's limited chord feature is kind of a downer. I can do the same thing on my old MKS-50, actually. I guess, I could program chords within patches.

Anyway, thanks again for all the great info!

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

26 Nov 2010, 03:32

Okay, so I have a Fantom X7 on the way...YAY!!! I am super excited!!!

I decided to just go for it and sell everything I have (except for my Vintage Keys Plus) and get the X7. I was, originally, going to get the Fantom XR, but I decided to go with the all-in-one sequencing solution (I used Logic, ages ago, and it just seemed really cumbersome to use...plus, I don't want to have to carry around my netbook to gigs).

Going back to the chord play question...

Upon doing some further research, I thought I saw a YouTube video describing how to assign chords to the pads.

Is it possible to "play" the pads from an external MIDI controller? (specifically, a set of MIDI bass pedals) Are the pads assigned MIDI notes (or can you assign them notes)?

Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse...LOL

Re: Newbie questions about performance structure and chord p

26 Nov 2010, 07:00

Congratulations Goatghost! And welcome to the exclusive members club that is the X7 :o)

Is it possible to "play" the pads from an external MIDI controller? (specifically, a set of MIDI bass pedals) Are the pads assigned MIDI notes (or can you assign them notes)?

Yes. You can set the MIDI channel that the pads will use to transmit & receive data on.

Do you have a link to that video? There's probably more to it than meets the eye!

Regards
Andy

Andy