Just Purchased a G after being a X-man

Hey! Thanks for that, Vismus, and welcome to the 'G' world! Please keep us informed as your experience progresses! I find it most interesting as to your comments about the pads. There are a few members who feel that the pads are too stiff. I haven't used them enough in the area of percussion or sample playback to form an accurate opinion one way or another.

Cheers!
PiaKnowGuy
Please listen to Don't You Think It's Tacky?


PiaKnow

i had an x for 2.5 years and thought it was great. however after owning the g for 10 months i just sold the x as it was just gathering dust lol. no comparion... the g is miles better in every department. fantastic bit of kit.

Have often looked at your very cool site and found your tastes to be more current than mine. I have a very eclectic palette. My partner and I compose for documentary film and I have everything from a often used Oberheim Matrix and Yamaha TX802 to the V-Synth XT; from Gigastudio to Spectrasonics Omnisphere. I'm more "all over the map" than most as each project calls for a very varied sound source set. (Currently, am working on a film for Nat Geo, "Terraforming on Mars" and a web site for North Western University.)

You may well be correct and in time, I may do away with the X but more than likely, the X will move to my "weekend warrior" rig and the G will replace the FA-76 in the studio.

Give me your thoughts on the the benefits of the G over the X.

T

'The Audacity Works', another moderator here at the forum, took some time to compile the following list, (current as of July 18th / OS 1.30) which I have taken the liberty to re-post, as I thought that you might find it an interesting read.

Below are some of the advantages of the Fantom-G over the Fantom-X. Some are superfluous, some are mission-critical, some you may not even be aware of. Some look like "m'eh" on first perusal, but in practice, make all the difference in the world...

HARDWARE
•WAY larger and higher resolution screen
•Dedicated tempo/fader value display, regardless of screen mode
•Addition of 8 assignable faders
•Mic preamp with phantom power (that can also be used to record straight into your computer)
•Impedance switch for optimizing input level
•Extra control pedal input
•Ivory feel keys and better weighted action (G8)
•Dedicated TRANSPOSE button
•Dedicated LOOP and JUMP buttons
•Combined CURSOR/VALUE layout more efficient
•Dedicated FAVORITES button
•Dedicated EXP1/EXP2 buttons (instant expansion board access)

PERFORMING
•Arpeggio can be based on any MIDI phrase or Standard MIDI File
•Any MIDI phrase or SMF's shuffle and accent can be adjusted in real time
•Bender modes for choosing how the bender affects chords
•Knobs and sliders can act in catch (null) mode, eliminating any obnoxious volume or parameter jumps
•Arpeggio styles can be switched on the fly via pads
•Tones within a patch can be enabled/disabled on the fly via pads
•Transmission of MIDI channel(s) can be enabled/disabled on the fly via pads, allowing ultra-fast selection of external instruments when playing live
•Dedicated volume level for each Favorites registration, allowing one to level match all sounds for a show
•Dedicated transpose setting for each Favorites registration, making it easier to ensure playing in the right key
•Twice as many favorite registrations can be accessed instantly (via pads)
•External parts are now independent with their own mixer and settings
•Multiple parts can be adjusted simultaneously with knobs, S-buttons, etc.

STORAGE / DATA MANAGEMENT
•Relatively future-proof storage mechanism (USB mass storage instead of antiquated PCMCIA or CF card with PC-card adapter)
•Max storage increased from 1GB to 16GB (and some people are successfully using USB hard drives up to 120GB)
•Max RAM increased from 512MB to 1GB
•Number of songs, samples, patches, Live Sets, Studio Sets, and other settings limited only by external storage capacity
•Removable storage now allows each song to utilize full RAM (if saved to dedicated project) instead of all songs sharing existing memory
•User patches increased from 256 to 512 (x number of projects)
•User performances (Live Sets) increased from 128 to 512 (x number of projects) plus 128 dedicated Studio Sets (x number of projects) for songwriting
•Notable loading/saving speed increase (feels about three to four times as fast)
•Notably faster boot time

SOUND ENGINE
•All-new DSP processor chip, the first in almost ten years
•New optimized sound engine to run on said chip
•Twice the sound ROM (256 MB vs. 128 MB)
•Perfectly seamless transitions between single patches and 8-part Layer/Split performances including effects, exclusive only to the Fantom-G (No, the Motif's new OS does not do this)
•22 simultaneous effects—each internal part gets its own PFX processor, largely eliminating problem where patches sound radically different in multi/combi/performance/song mode
•Reverb algorithms greatly improved
•Expansion cards add polyphony—current max 320 voices (theoretical max 384 voices)
•Expansion cards add multitimbrality—current max 18 internal parts (theoretical max 48 internal parts)
•Expansion cards add their own effects engine—ARX-01 has its own reverb and a dedicated compressor for each drum sound within a kit!
•Expansion cards add new synthesis methods—limited only by DSP
•Step LFO steps increased from 16 to 64
•24-bit/96k D/As
•New analog I/O (op amps, etc.)

SEQUENCER / MIDI ENGINE
•128 MIDI tracks allow for dedicated sequencing of individual sounds within rhythm kits, separate hands of a complex piano part, external instruments on their own tracks, MIDI automation, program changes, or SysEx data
•3 x the audio tracks (24)
•100 times the tempo resolution
•DAW-style graphical editing via mouse—what might take two minutes in the Fantom X takes mere seconds in the G
•Alias-based phrase copies—no more tracking down that errant note fifty times in the same song
•Twice as many user Rhythm Pattern sets
•MIDI track regions display note data from main Song Edit screen
•Improved zoom and navigation functionality in sequencer
•MIDI and audio regions can be viewed, edited, and arranged on the same screen
•MIDI and audio tracks can be rearranged in any order
•MIDI and audio tracks can be freely named
•Higher resolution on waveforms
•Near-instant screen redraws on audio tracks
•Any phrase can be an RPS
•Any phrase can be a rhythm pattern
•Any phrase can be an arpeggio style
•RPSes and rhythm phrases can be assigned to control only internal—or—external parts—or both
•Available song markers have doubled from 4 to 8
•Song markers can be named, and appear on the song's timeline

NAVIGATION / USER INTERFACE
•First machine in almost two decades to eschew the confusing "patch vs. performance" dogma for the much simpler and more obvious Single/Live/Studio layout
•More visible parameters means less screen navigation
•Confusing Save vs. Write menus merged
•Ten-key keypad makes numeric entry extremely fast
•Assignable buttons moved to above the joystick where they belong
•Scroll wheel on mouse scrolls up and down tracklist and adjusts other various parameters
•Menu navigation remembers last visited menu and submenus
•Bookmarking screens now remembers submenus
•Writing a Live Set or Studio Set remembers the current pad mode
•Writing a Live Set or Studio Set remembers the current RPS set (and Rhythm Pattern set), allowing one to recall entirely different RPSes with each performance
•Fourth knob and eighth slider used for ultra-fast patch and menu scrolling
•OSX Spotlight-style search function
•QWERTY-style patch/performance/song/sample/project naming
•Part select buttons allows one to switch parts on the fly, even while sequencing
•Real-time effects bypass switches
•Dedicated track mutes via pads
•Knobs control a much wider variety of onscreen parameters

COMPUTER INTERFACING
•24-bit/96kHz USB audio interface—allows realtime recording straight into DAW software or sampling directly from any computer app
•Way more visual feedback, such as fader and knob levels
•No need to bounce internally, freeing up both time and precious RAM
•Editor can act as a VST, AU, or RTAS plugin
•Librarian software doesn't require a direct connection to the Fantom
•Librarian software allows one to organize content of any project, not just the internal patches and performances
•Vista 64-bit driver available

OTHER STUFF
•Easier to update OS
•Over 900 built-in rhythm patterns and RPSes
•Play mode of all RPSes within an RPS set can be changed instantly
•RPSes can instantly be assigned to only black keys or white keys
•Multisample assignment has been streamlined and enhanced
•All samples in memory are instantly available as a sample patch, without having to assign them
•All 2000 samples are selectable instantly via simple MIDI bank select/PC messages
•New power switch recessed to avoid accidental shutdown
•D-Beam can play screen saver video games

•And last but not least, all the stuff from any future updates!

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I personally use the 'G' as a controller keyboard and sound source when plugged into Sonar, and appreciate it most for it's per-part effects! I still own and use the 'X8' in as well as outside of the studio, using it's on-board sequencer extensively. That has been my biggest challenge - getting used to 'phrase sequencing'.

BTW Your site and music is amazing!

Cheers!
PiaKnowGuy
Please listen to Don't You Think It's Tacky?


PiaKnow

You know, there are a few things on that list that the X can do either immediately or with a simple workaround.

If I had more time I'd take it apart, but I'm at work. Maybe I'll argue it later on )

Cheers
Andy

What in general I take exception with regarding that list is, yes, there are improvements ...

but ...

1) are they that significant ... ??? or is it just a long list ... ???

2) are they really what Fan-X owners were clamoring for ... ???

3) Are they worth what was lost or not implemented because of Fan-G design choices ... ???

I use Fan-G a lot these days and while I like it, and would still take it over current Motif/M3, I struggle to hear/find what's really significantly different or better than Fan-X considering all the time Roland had for next gen and what a great product they already had in Fan-X ...

Increasingly, I find myself content to sit on the sidelines making music on Fan-X until post-Fan-G Fantom appears ... By then, Roland will have hopefully improved the effects routing system to something more flexbile and useful in the studio ... not to mention being able to freely assign pad behaviors to various pads at once ... etc. ...

Diametro & Andy:
Interesting takes on the G series.
Am keeping my X6 and 7 for the immediate future as I've currently little free time to devote to the G learning curve. Tried a G in a music store and was taken by the screen programming/layout but did not think the sound was markedly different or better than the X series. I use a Hammond XM-2 module for live organ and to my ears, the G fell flat once again in that department.
I purchased the G because I found a great deal on a floor model and want to update my studio master with either an X or G. Time will tell...(The G7 sure is purdee, though.)

Tom

Nothing really against G ... Just already have X and am still finding ways to make it sound better ...

If Roland were to release nice ARX boards, that may tip the scales for me ...

I'm with Diametro here.

For me, the one thing the G was missing for me was the one thing the X lacks: decent Hammond sounds. Hence my buying a Nord.

Anyway, here's some arguments for you )

Things on the list that the X can do:

HARDWARE
•Mic preamp with phantom power (that can also be used to record straight into your computer)
Select Input source as “microphone”.
•Dedicated FAVORITES button
Context bound, but available on any screen where workflow dictates you might want access to favourites (Patch or Performance)

PERFORMING
•Multiple parts can be adjusted simultaneously with knobs, S-buttons, etc.
There are ways to do this, e.g. having multiple parts on the same MIDI channel.

STORAGE / DATA MANAGEMENT
•Max RAM increased from 512MB to 1GB
1Gb has been successfully used by some on this forum
•Number of songs, samples, patches, Live Sets, Studio Sets, and other settings limited only by external storage capacity
Evidence has been posted on here of song storage only limited by storage medium.
•Removable storage now allows each song to utilize full RAM (if saved to dedicated project) instead of all songs sharing existing memory. There is Quinnx’s folder workaround for this. Or use of multiple CF cards.
•User patches increased from 256 to 512 (x number of projects)
User patches on X can be stored as RPS or MID files and recalled almost instantly, so in practice no real limit.
•User performances (Live Sets) increased from 128 to 512 (x number of projects) plus 128 dedicated Studio Sets (x number of projects) for songwriting
See Quinnx’s project workaround.

SOUND ENGINE
•Perfectly seamless transitions between single patches and 8-part Layer/Split performances including effects, exclusive only to the Fantom-G (No, the Motif's new OS does not do this)
Available via RPS or any clever use of sound switching. See Lazeeboy’s thread on here.

SEQUENCER / MIDI ENGINE
•Available song markers have doubled from 4 to 8
X with v2.1 OS has 16 song markers (ATE OM, p.17)
•Song markers can be named, and appear on the song's timeline
Markers appear on the song timeline but have set names

NAVIGATION / USER INTERFACE
•Writing a Live Set or Studio Set remembers the current RPS set (and Rhythm Pattern set), allowing one to recall entirely different RPSes with each performance
These can be saved as RPS data within SVQ files and accessed from Live Play mode.
•Real-time effects bypass switches
•Dedicated track mutes via pads

OTHER STUFF
•RPS can instantly be assigned to only black keys or white keys
RPS can be assigned to any key or pad.
•All samples in memory are instantly available as a sample patch, without having to assign them - OS2.0 allows immediate use of samples in Patch mode through USAM and CSAM banks.
•All 2000 samples are selectable instantly via simple MIDI bank select/PC messages - All USAM and CSAM “patches” have PC numbers.

•And last but not least, all the stuff from any future updates!
This is inadmissible. Never buy a workstation on the promise of what it might do. I thought that was a bit of a mantra round here )
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I really don't want to start a war here, folks. I like my X and I'm glad you all like your G's. And until it no longer does what I need I'll stick with it.

Cheers
Andy

Reading thru the replies in this thread, I realize most of you know far more about the Fantoms and utilize
lots of the features than I. KUDOS! Have spent a fair amount of time getting to know lots of the X's capabilities but don't often use many of the features live or in the studio. Have sequenced a few things with the onboard sequencer but only to learn and get a feel for it. All my work is done in MOTU Digital Performer. If needed live I would transfer the sequence file from DP to the Fantom. Have lots of loop samples in the X and placed them under the pads.
I'm mostly a "Rhodes" and B3 guy on my weekend gig as there is a second keyboardist in the band and he's a KILLER pianist. One thing of interest is I run my electric piano sounds and Hammond module thru a Leslie design by Motion Sound; the 145 model. It has a tube pre and full rotor and horn. Pain in the arse to move but it sounds like butter! (Actually, very small and only 65lbs.) Included a pic of my gig rig...
Regards,
Tom

Im with Diametro..

it is just avery long list...
but where do we go with this that has not already been said...

I think in the end its all to do with how you want to work..
As i say to people looking to upgrade there P4 to dual core or better (should I??)

If your doing the same thing now as you where doing when you got the p4, Unless your lacking something thats needed.. you stay with your P4 untill it dies.
Same with X v G.

The X for studio work will yeald the same end results as the G..

However.. The G as a LIVE stand alone keyboard will yeald better results than the X because of..
Faster load times, PFX per patch and general sound improvents
also USB storage and project based.

quinex my respect as each to there own. however an x is the same as the g in studio mode? im currentley running sixten patches in studio mode each with there own unique effect and running 14 cahnnels of audio. could an x do that?....... no....... i had x with audio expansion for 2.5 years so i know how it works. i recently sold it as all it was doing was gathering dust. the screen itself on the g is worth the upgrading for and phrase based sequencing is a million times better that what the x offered. besides all the other numerous features it offers.

Quinnx:
Think you hit it on the head.

As I stated in my first post of this thread; my take is the G is a "baby step" over the X series, and if I had smarts, would have elected to wait for the next version before considering buying.
That being said, I was swayed by the software updates and the price for this floor model. ( If I had any real fortitude, I would have stayed away from the temptation. Just LOVE new toys....sad.)
Let's see where this all plays out. I'll keep the group updated as I dig into the G. Still will not do away with either of my X's until I more fully understand the G. (BYTW: I briefly owned a Roland G-70 and thought that was the right board for my live situation. Then we added a second keyboard player.....WRONG. I do the cocktail hours and he does the ceremonies. No need for a machine with those features.)
T

Forgot to mention:
Load times are a big issue for my live gig as, at any time, the power could go down and I'll need to reboot.
And, as I stated before, the graphics are SOOOO sexy...sad.)

Tom