Fantom-G

I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 05:08
Let me begin by saying that I have been involved in MIDI production for about 15 years....

Originally when I bought my FIRST workstation (Roland XP80) the Manual suggested that I record my midi data on the Channel that corresponds with the number of the track. This was a practice that I adopted, simply because the manual "Said So" and I never really even considered another option. I continued with that practice even after I bought my Fantom X6 a couple years ago and all was well....(For the Moment)

Then I bought the padkontrol which has the ability to let EACH PAD transmit on its own midi channel....and I got the idea....what if I could record MULTIPLE CHANNELS of midi data at the SAME TIME?!?
Well I originally THOUGHT that the Fantom's Output assignments were TRACK BASED. I also thought that the "Pad mute" function muted individual TRACKS....

The process of recording drums was VERY labor intensive and NON-intuitive....this was because of the fact that I would record EACH DRUM SOUND (One at a Time) onto its own TRACK. I did this because I thought that this was what I had to do to keep them seperate>I didnt know any better....

Well.....out of FRUSTRATION I decided to do a series of tests to see if I could find a solution to my problem. I found out some things that I never knew.....

1) The fantom X's pad mute function does NOT mute individual tracks....it mutes individual CHANNELS.....

2) The "output assignments" are not Track assignments they are CHANNEL assignments!!!!

The reason that this is so profound (at least for me) is because....I was under the impression that i HAD TO have everything on seperate TRACKS in order to have the flexibility to freely ASSIGN, MUTE and EDIT the Midi Data....
I even remember bugging "Mr Audacity Works" because the New "G" didnt have Midi EXTRACT and MERGE functions.....functions that were critical because of the way I worked. (Sorry Mr. A W)

Due to the NEW information which I have learned I NOW realize that even if I record ALL SIXTEEN MIDI CHANNELS onto one TRACK, I will STILL be able to ROUTE, MUTE, EDIT and assign patches to those sixteen PARTS freely....This is MAJOR for me!

Which brings me to this question....If we can manipulate the data as I stated above..... We dont really NEED 16 tracks do we? After learning what I learned today I feel quite STUPID for having ever recorded any differently in the first place. I will probably NEVER need more that ONE MIDI TRACK (Containing 16 Midi channels of data-that I can manipulate as I please) So the 128 track sequencer on the G seems like TOTAL overkill now...lol
The AUDIO tracks however are something different....

ONE difference that I noticed between the X and the G is that (according to the manual) the "Pad Mute" function on the G will actually mute the TRACK instead of the PART....However this wont change the way I record my sequences....

I now have to RE-EVALUATE whether the G will be a valuable upgrade for me......


Just wanted to share with you all
Thanks for tolerating my ranting!
Keep Makin Music!!!!!
T.R.I.C.K.M.A. Entertainment 2007
http://www.myspace.com/trickmaseang

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 05:39
Yes alot of people get confused between tracks and channels.
the X has 16 tracks and 16 parts
each part is assigned a midi channel.
what causes the confusion is that the 16 track mixer doubles as a 16 track and 16 part mixer.
so when people talk about 16 midi tracks they dont realise they are talking about 16 mdi channels..
the tracks are independant of this.

Thats why in prefference you have an option REC TRACK SELECT manual/auto
if set to manual,
which ever instrument you are on you can then choose after to press REC which track to record to. ;)

and yes Mute mutes channels not tracks which can be a pain



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Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 06:33
BBM
Welcome to the wonders of MIDI recording ;-)

But... never... in any circunstance think that 1 track is enough. It just makes no sense to keep on selecting the MIDI channel or merging/extract whenever you want to edit something. Having more tracks is a blessing if you want to do several takes on the same channel por example.

Learning, learning, learning.... ;-)

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 07:17
Yeah gotta agree here.

Roland seq have always been capable of recording and transmitting 16 midi channels on all their 16 tracks.So in theory if you could output each track seperately from your X you would have in fact 256 midi channel support for external equipment.

Like V-Cee says though,1 track is not always a good solution and the extra track count on the G will make life far more easier and keep things far more fluid.

Your drum tracks can now be named individually and placed together in batch of 8 or 10 tracks to keep things simple and effective,you wont need extraction and merge.Its one of the main reasons I'm moving up to the G.Workflow is everything to me,if a product makes my life easier and enables me to make my music quicker then I'm all for it.

The extra track count is good thing.Midi and audio wise.
Neil says..."Cake,you need Cake."

yES....BUT

8 Mar 2008, 07:18
When EDITING you CAN select which Track AND CHANNEL that you edit....

So editing is fine even if you DO have everything on the same track......(at least on the Fantom X you can)

It practically renders "Merge" and "Extract" useless,,,LOL
Keep Makin Music!!!!!
T.R.I.C.K.M.A. Entertainment 2007
http://www.myspace.com/trickmaseang

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 07:26
Oh of course but there is no substitution for a visual representation of what you are constructing and the G will make it all so much easier.Far more organised.
Neil says..."Cake,you need Cake."

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 08:07
Hey BBM,
Why have you always reocorded your drums individually?

I can't think of anything more laborious!

When I record drum patterns/tracks I always have a drum kit set up the way I like it first.

IE,drum sound ,volume, pan, effects wet/dry mix, eq etc.

If you have a valid reason for doing this please share it with me.

thanks.

Sol.

well....my reason was...

8 Mar 2008, 08:29
Because that was the ONLY way to get each drum on its own track on my XP80 without having to go through a complicated EXTRACTION after....LOL

It was a BAD habbit born out of my LACK of understanding (Of Workstations) at the time....

At the time when I bought it....I knew LITTLE about how they worked...



But now......




I am FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE......LOL
Keep Makin Music!!!!!
T.R.I.C.K.M.A. Entertainment 2007
http://www.myspace.com/trickmaseang

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 08:30
both ways are valid ways for different reasons, and often used one after the other:

- you record drums to one track to get a basic rhythm track fast: focus on rhythm sequencing for a whole song. This way you keep a good overview over the rhythm in context
- you spread the drum instruments or instrument groups (e.g. cymbals) over various tracks to get mixing control, e.g. with separate compressors or compressor settings

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 08:37
so you would seperate each drum sound onto an individual track so that you could have total control of the individual sound via the seperate outputs going to an effects unit?

Is that what you mean?

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 08:45
you cannot use seperate tracks to route indevididual parts of a rhythm kit to diferent fx.. its still coming from the same midi channel regardless of track.



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Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 10:23
LOL!

Do I take it you still haven't got to bank B of the preset sounds. ;-)

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 10:37
Quinnx,

of course you distribute them over separate channels to apply fx ...

Re: I had an EPIPHANY today!!!!!

8 Mar 2008, 12:08
yes over different channels
NOT
differnet tracks
Your getting confused ;)



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