Fantom-S and Fantom-X

Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

20 May 2006, 06:44
I just realized as pointed out by another roland synth owner that the fantom synthesizers employ a stereo field reducing compression scheme just like the VS 2480 recorders!

I noticed that sounds that are sampled and the onboard ROM sounds are very narrow sounding in comparison to all other synths with natural non compressed wide open stereo fields.

My VS 2480 also employ this scheme that will take a normal sample and reduce it to a smaller narrower copy of the original.

I wonder why roland did this to their synths and recorders?

They knew damn well that these compression scams I mean schemes would damaged the naturual stereo fields.

I'm sure they had measuring equipment to measure the effects of compression schemes and their effect to the normal stereo field.

I was trying to sample some stereo vocals in the Fantom X and VS 2480 and they both damaged the natural stereo fields they almost sound mono in comparison to the other instruments.

The Roland Fantom X also sufferes from that awful RDAC storage compression scheme developed by roland to allow more storage space or they have bad converters.

My sampled bass shrunk so much in the Fantom X I no longer use the Fantom X for fat bass because that narrow sound just won't cut it when I know everything else samples and plays much fatter.

Re: Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

20 May 2006, 06:56
VS recorders, as I know, have both compressed and linear modes. Fantom-X uses RDAC only for the ROM waves, and sampling is linear. I haven't ever heard any artifacts while sampling on the Fantoms, not sure how you could get such bad results as to you.

Re: Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

20 May 2006, 09:02
kday,

Hmm. I don't see how the compression employed in the 2480 can be based on stereo field when it applies to individual tracks. The machine can play back 24 mono tracks exactly as it can play back 12 stereo tracks, and likewise it can record 8 stereo tracks exactly as it can record 16 mon tracks.

?

-illiac

Re: Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

21 May 2006, 03:52
"Fantom-X uses RDAC only for the ROM waves,"

Exactly Artemio !!!

That's what I'm talking about, that RDAC compression in the Fantom X Rom sounds compromised the natural sound process.

I don't know which company has the best compression schemes but rolands is the only one that's definately noticable.

Rom sounds are compromised and warped by the RDAC compression process.

I tested all my fantom sampled sounds against the other samplers and all the others samplers, synths and recorders all sounded the same other than the Fantom X and the VS 2480.

The fantom X Rom samples are affected by the RDAC process also and have a narrower sounding slant to all the sounds in comparison.

Just record the very same stereo sample into the Fantom X and another non compressed digital sampling method or another keyboard and you will easily hear the narrowness of the Fantom samples.

I sampled some bass sounds into my Fantom X and couldn't figure out why they all of a sudden sounded so small and tiny and narrow in comparison to my other samplers and now i know why. Its that RDAC it narrows the stereo field which shrinks the overall sound.

Only my Fantom X and synth VS 2480 recorder plays back samples with a shrunken stereo field.


"kday,

Hmm. I don't see how the compression employed in the 2480 can be based on stereo field when it applies to individual tracks."


illiac
The recorded sounds are compromised when RDAC is applied.
The 2480 does allow non compressed format but at only 16 tracks and I think only in stereo tracks only so no mono tracks in non compressed format if i'm remembering right.

Overall I feel like I been cheated because I can record naturally big wide stereo samples from my other samplers but my new fantom X won't sound like they do.

I here wondering how I'm gonna make up for that. I might have to abandon sampling thru the Fantom altogether it just does too much to the stereo field for my knowledge.

Re: Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

22 May 2006, 00:54
I'd be curious to hear each compared to each other without any eq or effects althering the original sound.

Re: Roland Stereo Warping Compression Schemes

22 May 2006, 07:36
>> The 2480 does allow non compressed format but at only 16 tracks and I think only in stereo tracks only so no mono tracks in non compressed format if i'm remembering right.

There is no connection between "stereoness" and ttrack count on the 2480.

There is actually no such thing as a "stereo" track on the 2480. There are linked channels, but this simply links channel controls together, like panning and level. At any point, you can unlink the channels and/or move one half of a pair of linked tracks to any other (virtual) track and no copying of audio occurs, some pointers get moved.

-illiac

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