Volume problems with Sampling?

Yep. Welcome to FS resampling!

As to the reason, it may well be to leave some headroom for adding efx, parts, boosts, etc. afterward. However, whatever the reason, it is a part of the FS design. The way to fix the lowered volume is to Normalize the sample.

Cheers,
RW

It is not how loud you make it, it is how you make it loud. Bob Katz

As always, RW is right but I would like to let you know how I like to do it because I think it works better this way compared to “Normalizing” the sample. Before I make a sample I like to boost the EQ levels and then make the sample. This might take a few tries to get the sample to be exactly like the original but it can be done and it does not take much work. I believe that all Normalize does is boost the EQ levels anyway but from what I can tell it boosts the EQ levels the same amount for every sample which might not always work for some samples. Boosting the EQ levels before you make your sample gives you the control over this and then there is no need to Normalize. Hope you find this to help you.
One more thing. If you do it the way I suggested I think that you will find that you can raise the low, mid, and high EQ levels by the same amount (around 10 each) and this will give you the results you desire.

You the man, Artemio!

This is the second thread that I've heard "Normalize the sample" mentioned. What exactly does this mean and how does one go about doing it on the FS? Is this something that needs to be done on the computer after the fact?


My Fantom-S songs are at: http://dhsw.home.comcast.net

FBJ's method is what I've used, but like he said - it's trial and error usually taking some time to get it right.

My Fantom-S songs are at: http://dhsw.home.comcast.net

Normalize is one of the edit features in the F-S. It works pretty good on the majority of samples that I have done but on some samples it does not come close to cutting it.

You the man, Artemio!

Bruiser,

In the Sample Edit screen press SAMPLE MODIFY and then NORMALIZE. If you want to replace the original sample, make sure there is a checkmark in the OVER WRITE box and then press EXEC. After you confirm, it'll take a few seconds (depending on how long the sample is) to perform the operation.

FBJ, "Normalizing" is not quite the same as EQ, the latter being something that boosts or cuts away from certain frequencies or frequency bands in the sample. When you Normalize a sample, you are boosting the amplitude (signal level) of the entire sample (not just certain frequency bands). Basically, what it does is take a look at the peaks in the sample, figures out how far away those peaks are from maximum level (not sure if this is 0 db for the FS, or if they build in headroom such as -3 or even -6 db), and then raises the entire signal level so that the peaks are at maximum level. This boosts the quiet parts of the sample as well.

Normalizing is quick and automatic, but, if you do it repeatedly, you'll introduce quantization noise into the sample (thus, it's better to just do it once). Your EQ method may work as well, but it will alter the harmonic content of the sample as well as the perceived volume.

The reason Normalizing works better on some samples then on others is probably due to the dynamic variation of the sample (if there is a wide range in your sample, it may not boost the low-level parts enough to help).

Cheers,
RW

It is not how loud you make it, it is how you make it loud. Bob Katz

I was going a little sampling. Did a 4 bar loop in ACID 4 and brought the loop over through the USB just fine. When I pre-viewed the sample it was good and loud when I played the sample as a part/patch, the volume was not as loud. I made sure the volume in the mixer was at the max(127) and it still was not as loud as the pre-view in the sample edit screen. I normalized the sample which made it louder still in the preview screen, but as a patch/part the sound was still not as loud as the pre-view. Is there some kind of compression or something going on? I'm guessing it because of the effects. I want the samples to be just as loud as the drum patchs on the pads which are super loud.

Where if possible can we post track we want to share on the post?

Holler Back,
Kai Wen

Did you initialise the patch before using the sample as a waveform, or just reuse an existing one?

Reason I ask is that there are places in the patch itself where you can set volume
- General - Patch Level
- TVA - tone level
- Output - tone level
and of course TVF and TVA settings will have a strong influence on the sound level.

Thanks for the input Lawrencew. I did look into the patch settings and I think I change a couple of things that I thought were related to the volume level. I know I didn't do anything to the TVA or TVF. I'll play around with it this evening. Can you make your samples sound just as loud as say the Fathom-S drums on the pads? Mine are loud and strong, to the point that I have to turn the volume down in the mixer screen. I want my samples to sound just as strong especially if I created a rhythm pad of drum hits myself. When I get home I'll load up the sample I made last night and mess with the parameters you mention. I am really getting into the manual to get a good understanding of the keyboard. I'm getting the hang of the keyboard finally.

This is a perfect thread for Roland to show up on - oh well.

I watched the NAMM demos for the FS that Roland has up on its site a while back -- then this issue last came up.

In the video, the guy does skip back sampling and assigns it to a patch (or the pads, I don't remember). When he triggers the sample, it sounds, to my ears, to be just as loud as the original.

I'd like to know what they tweaked to get that to happen.

But, this is one of those issues that, although I love the FS, needs addressing. But, we've been down this road before....

http://forum.fantom-s.info/?action=show_thread&thread=197&fid=0&s=0&e=15

Hey Phil,

Yeah you are correct, when you do skip back sampling the sample sounds just as loud as the patch/part or pad that was sampled. My thing is that the sample I import over seem to be getting the volume compressed or something. I've got to figure out how to get the imported samples to sound just as loud as the factory sounds that come in the Fathom-S. I'm sure it's a matter of some tweeks here and there.

Kai

Hey Kai - actually, I think the Skip Back resample is ALSO lower in volume than the original. I was just saying that in the Roland video, that problem doesn't seem to exist and I was wondering how they "fixed" it. I agree with you that it's a problem.