Best/favorite piano patch in the new Fantom...?

Super Knob. Must be truly outstanding to have the chance to change things even in opposite directions at the turn/press of a knob/pedal.

Keyboard ranges OUTWARD ( A4-A3 will play below A3 and above A4).

8 partials per tone (8 operators per part).

I just bought one more thing that the Fantom does not do. I bought a Roland BK-7M. This will allow me to have arranger workstation capabilities. I previously was using vArranger, but it is buggy and clunky software. I am excited to be able to just sit down and play nice songs with backing tracks using chords on the fly and not have to invent them first on the Fantom. The Fantom is great at what it does do, but it is lacking features that I miss from the past.

FGM wrote:

Super Knob. Must be truly outstanding to have the chance to change things even in opposite directions at the turn/press of a knob/pedal.

Keyboard ranges OUTWARD ( A4-A3 will play below A3 and above A4).

8 partials per tone (8 operators per part).

Thanks. I will check it out.

FGM wrote:

I made a scene with 16 zones and 64 tones that sounds like the piano I wanted. Not all partials are just piano waves but a terrific mixture of many waves, and pitches and volumes, velocities and everything...and the result is pretty much like the Steinways I love my best.

Would you mind giving tips or sharing more details about how to achieve such piano sound from the built-in fantom samples?
Which banks do you pick samples from, ie SN AP1, AP3, exz001, 011, 013 etc? How would you layer them? Or have you mentioned it in other threads?

Huge Thanks in advance :)

polo wrote:

What is everyone's best/favorite piano patch in the new Fantom?

The one that sounds most like a real concert grand piano.

I notice that this is an old thread, but I reply anyway. What I define as a good piano sound depends on what I plan to use it for. A piano sound that is extremely full and rich with smiley-eq applied can sound impressive when played alone in a Youtube video, but it can be almost impossible to make it work in a mix together with other instruments without a lot of tweaking. I like the virtual piano sounds (Vpno). I love their sound character and they often sit perfect in a mix with no to very little tweaking.

I always prefer simplicity unless complexity is needed to achieve what I want. If I needed to layer 16 zones to make a decent piano sound, I would sell my Fantom today and buy something else. But luckily I can do just fine with only one tone :-)

The thread may be old but I think it's still relevant since pianos are an important part of many genres.

What I've noticed is that the Fantom takes the modeling approach where the Kronos and Yamaha use sampled sounds. There's value to both approaches, of course, and like most things it comes down to personal needs and taste.

The modeled pianos of the Fantom are designed to let you tweak them to an extreme level of detail. If I had very specific needs or tastes (and the talent to tweak sounds, which is a skill of its own), I think the capabilities the Fantom provides are excellent.

For my personal taste, I prefer the sound of the sampled pianos, the Steinway in particular. I've had a Kronos 88 since 2018 and the German Grand is my go to on that keyboard. However, I recently bought a Montage M8x, and the only thing I can say about their Steinway is Holy Cow. If sampled sounds are your thing, they did an outstanding job on it (and the M8x keyboard is a delight to play if you like weighted keys).

Even so, one of the things I noticed before buying the M was that the Kronos German Grand has limited dynamic range. Part of that is their decisions on velocity overall and part is the way they sampled the Steinway (in fairness, that was a decade ago in 2014). When I play any of the Fantom pianos after playing the German Grand, the dynamics just leap out at me. Since it's modeled and not sampled, they don't suffer the same limitations.

I would absolutely use the Fantom pianos on a gig (were I still gigging), but in the studio and for personal taste my go to is now the Hamburg Grand on the M. The Fantom shines in different areas, particularly the Roland synth stuff.

Someone also made the comment about buying a synth action controller as a supplement to their 88 Fantom. I did a similar thing. My Kronos and M8x are both 88 weighted. That's what feels comfortable to me, and I'm clumsy on synth action. So, I intentionally bought the Fantom 7 so that I'd have a high quality synth keybed as well. In terms of sound it doesn't matter as I typically record midi and then render anyway, so I could just as easily track on the M or Kronos and then render a part on the Fantom. And this way maybe someday I'll not be so sloppy when I sit down to a synth action keybed. :)

ChrisDuncan wrote:

The thread may be old but I think it's still relevant since pianos are an important part of many genres.

Your post has a lot of useful information, thank you!

I think it comes down to music genre, what role the piano has in the music, live versus studio, piano playing skills and of course personal preferences. I even think there is a difference in the preferences that is culturally conditioned. All the mixing videos I have found on Youtube are about how to make the loudest, widest, fullest, most crispy and most punchy sound. I have never come across a video named "how to make a mix that serves the song". My playing skills are bad so my approach is minimalistic music with simple and carefully thought out chord progressions and melodies played with as much feeling as I can. At the other end of the scale compared to Elton John. Hence the character/vibe and how the sound responds to dynamic variations is most important to me. But synth sounds and sound design is what I spend the most time on. So I bought the Fantom because it covers a wide range of synth sounds and because I love the synth keybed action, which is very important to me.

tksense wrote:

FGM wrote:

I made a scene with 16 zones and 64 tones that sounds like the piano I wanted. Not all partials are just piano waves but a terrific mixture of many waves, and pitches and volumes, velocities and everything...and the result is pretty much like the Steinways I love my best.

Would you mind giving tips or sharing more details about how to achieve such piano sound from the built-in fantom samples?
Which banks do you pick samples from, ie SN AP1, AP3, exz001, 011, 013 etc? How would you layer them? Or have you mentioned it in other threads?

Huge Thanks in advance :)

Cannot reach my Fantom 8 now, but as easy as placing a mixture
of pianos that go +/-1 octave, with different keyboard ranges, different volumes, different ADSR... I remember I added a drum or something like that to have a "granted foundation"...

Fantom 8 is so great !!!!


But...

New York L 1926 Lite is currently priced at $19.00.

You can find it here: https://www.bozdigitallabs.com/new-york-l-bundle-lite/

Here are the settings I recommend:

Reverb: 33.1%
Tone: -2.7
Width: 50%
Output: 0 dB
Microphone: L+R
Dynamics: 100%
Resonance: Emulated
Res gain: 20.0 dB
Under Options, set the following:

Graph Y axis: 127 top, 5 bottom
X axis: 0
Tuning: 440.0 then 415.0
Sus Thresh: 63
MIDI Channel: Omni
Transpose: 0


The sound produced with these settings is truly unbelievable!

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

osflaa wrote:

I think it comes down to music genre, what role the piano has in the music, live versus studio, piano playing skills and of course personal preferences.

You're right on the money with this observation. No matter what kind of music we make, our software and instruments exist only to serve the song.

I think the dynamic range as well as the ability to deep dive and customize Every. Freakin. Note. on a v piano is the perfect tool for someone like you who enjoys doing sound design and wants to explore the subtleties and depth of tones. While not a piano, I think Nzyme would also be a great tool for you, since it sounds like you focus less on how many notes per minute you can play and more on the evolving nature of the soundscape. In fact, the Fantom v pianos give you so much control, it makes me wonder if you could automate those per-note settings in real time to have an evolving piano in a similar manner to the evolving synth of Nzyme. If that's possible, it might be a cool musical experiment.

Given your minimalist approach to piano I really do think the Fantom is an excellent choice for you. You can tweak these models so that you get a very wide range of emotional and artistic expression with just a few notes. After all, the definition of a "good" song (subjective though that may be) is rarely about the total count of notes played. It's about how it makes us feel.

Yes, yes and yes, the Fantom 8's keybed is truly exceptional, setting a high standard for keyboard quality and playability.

For those who spend countless hours practicing or performing, the superior design and craftsmanship of the Fantom 8's keybed provide an unparalleled experience. When it first landed in my hands, 16 hours non-stop were normal.

The keybed's meticulous construction offers both comfort and durability, essential for long practice sessions. Its ergonomic design mimics the feel of an acoustic piano, ensuring that extended playing doesn't result in finger fatigue. The materials used are of the highest quality, contributing to a smooth and consistent touch that prevents slipping and ensures precise control.

Moreover, the keybed's weighted keys and responsive action capture every nuance of your performance, from the softest pianissimo to the most powerful fortissimo. This responsiveness not only enhances your artistic expression but also aids in developing and refining technique, as you can focus entirely on musicality without compensating for mechanical flaws.

Playing the Fantom 8 for extended periods, like my initial 16-hour sessions, is a testament to its ergonomic excellence. It minimizes strain, encourages natural hand positions, and distributes effort evenly, reducing the risk of repetitive strain injuries. This is especially important for serious musicians who practice intensively.

In essence, the Fantom 8's keybed transforms the act of playing into a seamless and enjoyable experience, allowing you to push the boundaries of your practice and performance without physical discomfort.

😀😀😀😀
🎹🎹🎹🎹

ChrisDuncan wrote:

I think the dynamic range as well as the ability to deep dive and customize Every. Freakin. Note. on a v piano is the perfect tool for someone like you who enjoys doing sound design and wants to explore the subtleties and depth of tones. While not a piano, I think Nzyme would also be a great tool for you, since it sounds like you focus less on how many notes per minute you can play and more on the evolving nature of the soundscape.

Yes, I have found that I mostly use sounds from the JP8 and Juno-models, n/zyme and Vpno. This summer I take a deep dive into the zen-core engine, particularly FM and sounds based on my own samples. After that I plan to have a closer look at n/zyme (which seems to be very clearly and intuitive layed out) and then the Vpno parameters. I prefer only using my own sounds instead of presets, but must admit I have been a bit lazy the past couple of years. I would also love to sample an old and slightly out of tune acoustic piano and make a multilayer instrument for a retro/lofi-vibe. I haven't found many of this type of piano sounds that I like.

polo wrote:

What is everyone's best/favorite piano patch in the new Fantom?

The one that sounds most like a real concert grand piano.

Assuming I’m very demanding about acoustic piano sounds, owning a Fantom 7 EX (upgraded) I can’t stand playing piano sounds with its non weighted keyboard. Thus I found a sort of satisfaction driving German Grand via a Studiologic Numa X Piano GT.
When I want to obtain maximum results, according to my personal tastes, I play Bösendorfer’s Pianoteq 8 Pro with NXP GT. That’s all.

wave wrote:

Assuming I’m very demanding about acoustic piano sounds, owning a Fantom 7 EX (upgraded) I can’t stand playing piano sounds with its non weighted keyboard. Thus I found a sort of satisfaction driving German Grand via a Studiologic Numa X Piano GT.
When I want to obtain maximum results, according to my personal tastes, I play Bösendorfer’s Pianoteq 8 Pro with NXP GT. That’s all.

I have a similar feeling with my 7 EX. My Kronos and Montage M are both 88, and there's just something about playing piano that makes me want the weighted feel. Synth action is distracting in that regard.

However, I had the Fantom and Kronos connected and was able to play the Fantom piano sounds from a weighted 88. I noticed a couple of things in comparison to the Kronos, which uses sampled pianos and being older tech has more limitations in terms of velocity layers.

First, the expressiveness of the modeled Fantom pianos was light years beyond what I could get from the Kronos. I had dynamics I didn't even realize I was missing. The second thing that I noticed was that, for me personally, the modelled sounds just don't feel right compared to samples of the real thing, e.g. the German Grand on the Kronos or the Hamburg Grand on the Montage M. In fairness, I felt the same way about guitar amps. There's just something about the real thing.

Consequently, when I want to play piano, it's not the Fantom I'm reaching for. I love it for many other things, however, so it doesn't have to be perfect for me in every scenario. However, I wouldn't interpret this as saying the pianos sound bad. They most certainly don't, and I could easily see people gigging with them or using them in a mix where the piano wasn't the isolated star of the show. They sound good and play great. They're just not suited to my taste.