Chord Memory, Patterns and Arpeggio - changing the chords

The Fantom is not an arranger, thank god. (lol)

I understand the desire for such capabilities, but they don't belong in a pro-quality workstation, IMHO. Trying to make something be all things to all people tends to make it not especially good at anything.

Let arrangers be fully-featured arrangers, let workstations be fully-featured workstations.

Regarding your other observations/complaints ... it seems you really haven't explored what the instrument is capable of yet. If you do so, you may be surprised/delighted at the power you actually have at your disposal.

Especially look into the options available for the chord-memory. It's nowhere close to as limited as you suggest. And then also wrap your head around how the pattern-based sequencer and clip/lane launching works ... especially in conjunction with the new pad modes in OS 1.50. You might find yourself never wanting to touch an (ick!) arranger again. Or maybe you will ... your money, your choice. It's not my place to tell you what you should like.

Thank you for your response. As you alluded to, I am new to this and that is why I am asking questions. I am very impressed so far with the workstation capabilities of the Fantom and I have not yet fully explored most of its capabilities because there is so much and I am chipping away at it. As I am exploring things (like Chord Memory), I am running into things I am not expecting. I am not trying to say it is right or wrong necessarily. I am trying to understand it.

My question still stands. You mentioned that the Chord Memory is nowhere near as limited as I suggest. Please help me understand how it is used and what makes it so great that people love it so much. I really want to know so I can love it too. If I want to play a traditional song (pick anything - Silent Night for example) it doesn't sound right to me. When/how would you use Chord Memory? I have seen the videos showing how it can play chords up and down or simultaneously and you can change the type. That is all good, but what about changing the chord? Is the idea that the whole song is in the key of C even though it changes chords throughout, so you just leave it there and it sounds close enough? Or, is it mainly used for live music that is made up on the fly at parties and clubs, with people dancing to it, etc.?

Is the idea with the patterns that you pre-record everything in the background yourself and just choose the order of the patterns as you are playing live (either pre-programmed into a sequence or choosing them on the fly) and play on top of that (sort of like an arranger without having the extra work of hitting the chords, but instead having the option to choose new patterns on the fly if you want to)?

I am mainly wanting to play music live (not in front of people, but for my own enjoyment) and I want to be as interactive as I can with most of it rather than pre-record everything and just sit back. I know the Fantom is quite capable of being used in a live environment, and I am trying to figure out the transition from the arranger mindset to the workstation mindset and how people mainly use the Fantom for playing live.

Thanks again,
Michael

If you set a key signature of C, that does not mean that every chord will be a C, or even a major chord. It means that every note you hit will produce a chord with only notes in that key signature. If you are in the ey of C, and hit an A ... it will play an Am ... assuming you've set your options correctly.

The "Chord Form" parameter is important as well ... make sure you understand what's happening there.

That might settle about 80%-90% of your issues with chord-play. It certainly does nothing to help you if you want to change key signatures in the middle of a song ... no giant Barry-Manilow endings for you, lol.

Thank you! That definitely helps and makes some sense. I am looking forward to checking it out when I get home tonight. And yes, I can have my super extravagant Barry Manilow endings too because I purchased vArranger so I can have both worlds, lol. I can play all my old stuff with vArranger and slowly learn to use and appreciate the Fantom for what it truly is over time. Maybe like you say I will never end up using vArranger in the long run once I learn everything about the Fantom and get things set up so I can play each song and have it sound good. One thing I absolutely love so far is the ability to break everything up on the keyboard and have different sounds play depending on where you are and how hard you hit the keys.

thorr wrote:

Thank you! ...

Well, you're doing all the hard work of learning new stuff

I tried it last night again, and I went through every Chord Form with it set to C and turned the rolling setting off. I tried to play Silent Night with one note at a time with my right hand, and the only usable Chord Form was Octave because it simply repeats the same note an octave higher. Everything else sounded completely wrong and it was very difficult to even play Silent Night one note at a time while listening to what was coming out of the Fantom at the same time. Then I was thinking, maybe chord forms are supposed to be used for the left hand and I tried playing the notes for the chords that the left hand would use in Silent Night and split the keyboard so I could play the melody with my right hand on a different zone and it still was unusable. Either I am completely misunderstanding what chord memory is supposed to do or I won't ever use it except for maybe Octave because it frankly sounds terrible when playing a song with it. I wish I did, but I just don't get it. I haven't seen any videos out there with people playing songs with Chord Memory (there are only videos on how to go through the settings). That might be a good one to make so people can understand how and when to actually use it. Maybe C was the wrong choice. The first notes with my right hand were G,A,G,E.

Thats what ya get for playing "Silent Night" LOL

I'm going to take a wild stab and say that you're not playing the melody in the key of C ... or something like that. Is there a piece of sheet music we cam all refer to so that we're on the same (literal) page?

theshine wrote:

Thats what ya get for playing "Silent Night" LOL

Ha ha, I don't normally play Silent Night, but I was trying to pick a song that everyone is familiar with so it would be easier to troubleshoot this problem.

zombietactics wrote:

I'm going to take a wild stab and say that you're not playing the melody in the key of C ... or something like that. Is there a piece of sheet music we cam all refer to so that we're on the same (literal) page?

Thanks! I will see if I can find a piece of sheet music that may or may not be Silent Night, LOL and add to this thread after I get home. For now, as I mentioned, the notes I am playing are as follows (from memory):

Silent Night, Holy Night, All is Calm, All is Bright, Round Yon Virgin, Mother and Child
G A G E,,,,,,, G A G E,,,,,,, D D B,,,,,,, C C G,,,,,,,,,, A A C B A,,,,,,, G A G E

Pressing single keys with Chord Memory set to C.

Thanks again,
Michael

Edit: Here is a link to Silent Night Sheet Music:
https://www.music-for-music-teachers.com/images/silent-night-piano-solo-solid-chords-page-1.gif

I think your frustration is similar to mine, although I haven't tried Chord Memory yet. I'm wanting the Fantom to be a live performance machine where I am doing more than just using it for pre-recorded backing tracks, and yet where I can have some things set up ahead of time to respond to my need to change chords. In some styles (like EDM), it's common to stay on the same chord and drone through a song. But I like my songs to be more complex and have more chords. It would be nice to be able to set up a bass sequence, and then be able to transpose it with one-note keypresses as the chord changes. (The Behringer Crave does this.) You can kind of do this using the Fantom's arpeggiator, but the Fantom only has one arpeggiator, and that would tie it up so that you can't use it for anything else. I'm like you, plowing my way through multiple documents and scouring the web for videos that do a good job explaining some things the Fantom CAN do, but rarely spell out what the Fantom CAN'T do. It takes a lot of time to sift through it all, and I'm slowly learning. In the end, I think I'm going to have to settle for alternatives to what I want in some cases while being delighted with other things I didn't know I wanted.

I think I know what's happening here. You need to set the "Chord Form" to "Trad Maj" (I think that's it). This sets it so that it plays simple triads within what ever key you've set.

So hitting C plays a C Major chord, hitting a D plays a Dm chord, E plays an Em, F plays a F Major, G is a G Major, and A is Am chord. You have every possible chord you could need to Silent Night.

zombietactics wrote:

I think I know what's happening here. You need to set the "Chord Form" to "Trad Maj" (I think that's it). This sets it so that it plays simple triads within what ever key you've set.

So hitting C plays a C Major chord, hitting a D plays a Dm chord, E plays an Em, F plays a F Major, G is a G Major, and A is Am chord. You have every possible chord you could need to Silent Night.

Thanks again for your help. It makes sense that it should work, except it doesn't. It *almost* works if I use it for the left hand, but even then it is not great. The problem is that in order for it to work for the right hand, it needs to make the highest note in the chord be the note that is played. It doesn't always do this, so your melody gets all screwed up on various notes. The chord may be more less correct, which is why it almost works for the left hand, but even then, it doesn't always sound right. Try playing the melody and you will see what I mean.

choralriff wrote:

I think your frustration is similar to mine, although I haven't tried Chord Memory yet. I'm wanting the Fantom to be a live performance machine where I am doing more than just using it for pre-recorded backing tracks, and yet where I can have some things set up ahead of time to respond to my need to change chords. In some styles (like EDM), it's common to stay on the same chord and drone through a song. But I like my songs to be more complex and have more chords. It would be nice to be able to set up a bass sequence, and then be able to transpose it with one-note keypresses as the chord changes. (The Behringer Crave does this.) You can kind of do this using the Fantom's arpeggiator, but the Fantom only has one arpeggiator, and that would tie it up so that you can't use it for anything else. I'm like you, plowing my way through multiple documents and scouring the web for videos that do a good job explaining some things the Fantom CAN do, but rarely spell out what the Fantom CAN'T do. It takes a lot of time to sift through it all, and I'm slowly learning. In the end, I think I'm going to have to settle for alternatives to what I want in some cases while being delighted with other things I didn't know I wanted.

Yes, I saw your other post and I am on the same page as you. There are a few pieces of software that make your keyboard an arranger keyboard. There is a free one that I can't remember the name of right now that works with Yamaha styles. I bit the bullet and purchased vArranger. It isn't perfect, but it is way better than not having it for what we are trying to do at the moment. It has a working chord memory called "Harmony" and it has an Auto option. It automatically sounds correct for every chord you play. However, if you hold notes down with the right hand and change the left hand chord, it doesn't update the chord and it sounds wrong at that point. I asked the author to fix this and it is on his to-do list. Be aware that it doesn't immediately work directly with the Fantom's instruments. I had to create a .INS file to have a list to choose from. It comes with a software synth to get you started and the styles work immediately with that. I ended up getting a Ketron SD1000 and it sounds amazing with that. I have the option to change any instrument to one from my Fantom or anything else I have. Another much simpler option in hindsight would have been to get a used Roland BK-7m. It is limited to its own sounds and styles, but it is hardware instead of software.

With all that being said, I think we need to learn to embrace the capabilities of the Fantom and pre-record or import some patterns and cycle through them instead of playing chords to transpose them. We still have two hands and we can do a lot to keep it live. Splitting the keyboard, and adjusting what zones become active based on the velocity the keys are played at opens a lot of possibilities for making some awesome live stuff on top of recorded drum and pattern tracks. The difference between this and the above paragraph is this paragraph requires a lot more work to start playing something. It will probably end up sounding better, but you need to do the work to get it there.